Just got back from Walmart with pepper spray. Now what?

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whm1974 said:
maximum strength, with UV dye. Made by Sabre. Took me long enough. Should have gotten this when a old man I once knew harassed me for a few bucks
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Find out the laws where you live regarding what constitutes legal justification to use the thing, so you don't face an assault charge.

Do not do that in a public forum.

Andrew Branca's book The Law of Self Defense is a good thing to have and study.
 
Ed Ames said:
Pepper spray isn’t for aggressive panhandlers. It’s a weapon, and using a weapon is generally a crime unless you are actually being attacked. Panhandling isn’t an attack, it’s an annoyance.

You’ll need to research state and local laws for the specifics.
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Good input.

Minor change: unless there is reason to believe that an attack is imminent.
 
Ed Ames said:
Pepper spray isn’t for aggressive panhandlers. It’s a weapon, and using a weapon is generally a crime unless you are actually being attacked. Panhandling isn’t an attack, it’s an annoyance.

You’ll need to research state and local laws for the specifics.
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Th man was screaming at me to give him a few bucks. Followed me right out. Had to go next door to QT to avoid him. Heard bystanders threaten to call the police if he leave me along as I went in. Didn't know if he was going to attack me or what. If I didn't forget my cell phone at the time, I would have called the police myself.

He used to be my coworker for brief period and both he and 18 y/o son back in 2000 got fired for showing up drunk. The last time I've seen him was right on the sidewalk outside the office that handles my housing and he threw a fit like a spoiled brat. Went inside and got a staff member but he was gone by time she or he went outside.

Don't worry I didn't get this so I can spray people asking me for change. I don't usually carry any anyway, and I'm not going to open my wallet in front of strangers.

I now make sure my phone is on me when I leave home.
 
whm1974 said:
Th man was screaming at me to give him a few bucks. Followed me right out. Had to go next door to QT to avoid him. Heard bystanders threaten to call the police if he leave me along as I went in. Didn't know if he was going to attack me or what. If I didn't forget my cell phone at the time, I would have called the police myself.

He used to be my coworker for brief period and both he and 18 y/o son back in 2000 got fired for showing up drunk. The last time I've seen him was right on the sidewalk outside the office that handles my housing and he threw a fit like a spoiled brat. Went inside and got a staff member but he was gone by time she or he went outside.

Don't worry I didn't get this so I can spray people asking me for change. I don't usually carry any anyway, and I'm not going to open my wallet in front of strangers.

I now make sure my phone is on me when I leave home.
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Go into most major cities and you’ll see two types of beggars. Panhandlers, and Aggressive Panhandlers. Aggressive Panhandlers are not just active in asking for change. They yell, chase, threaten, intimidate, and otherwise make a commotion because a lot of people who would ignore a request will pay to stop a crazy person from chasing them around shouting for money. It’s a crime, but it’s so common that if you respond with force there’s a really good chance people will fault you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive_panhandling
 
Kleanbore said:
Do that, or go bak in.

Don't even think about using a spray cane, or anything else.
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Well I brought it in case the 17 y/o I mention in two other threads attacks me or a dog does the same. I will attempt to avoid trouble if at all possible.

The old man was just the first time I even considered getting this.
 
Ed Ames said:
Go into most major cities and you’ll see two types of beggars. Panhandlers, and Aggressive Panhandlers. Aggressive Panhandlers are not just active in asking for change. They yell, chase, threaten, intimidate, and otherwise make a commotion because a lot of people who would ignore a request will pay to stop a crazy person from chasing them around shouting for money. It’s a crime, but it’s so common that if you respond with force there’s a really good chance people will fault you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive_panhandling
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Well the old man was the first and only Aggressive Panhandler I had to deal with.
 
To be clear I didn't want to get this at all. I certainly hope I am not forced into spraying an attacker, not even a dog.
 
Ed Ames said:
Go into most major cities and you’ll see two types of beggars. Panhandlers, and Aggressive Panhandlers. Aggressive Panhandlers are not just active in asking for change. They yell, chase, threaten, intimidate, and otherwise make a commotion because a lot of people who would ignore a request will pay to stop a crazy person from chasing them around shouting for money. It’s a crime, but it’s so common that if you respond with force there’s a really good chance people will fault you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive_panhandling
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Actually reading the entry, I'm not so sure I would call such laws against such begging as "Criminalizing Homelessness" considering that a number of such people are not actually Homeless at all and/or Drug Addicts trying to get other people to pay for their habit.
 
whm1974 said:
Actually reading the entry, I'm not so sure I would call such laws against such begging as "Criminalizing Homelessness" considering that a number of such people are not actually Homeless at all and/or Drug Addicts trying to get other people to pay for their habit.
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Yeah don’t get me started on that. I’m very cynical about panhandlers in general, because I’ve known professional panhandlers (as in their “work day” is to leave the house, park the car, put on the costume, panhandle for a few hours...), but it’s impossible to deny that - mixed in with the exploitative pros - there are legitimate homeless people, often with untreated mental health issues that make it very unlikely that they’ll ever escape homelessness without a whole bunch of help they’re unlikely to ever get. The people who are panhandling to exploit human sympathy make life worse for the ones who actually need sympathy in a lot of ways including causing harsher laws to be enacted.
 
Ed Ames said:
Yeah don’t get me started on that. I’m very cynical about panhandlers in general, because I’ve known professional panhandlers (as in their “work day” is to leave the house, park the car, put on the costume, panhandle for a few hours...), but it’s impossible to deny that - mixed in with the exploitative pros - there are legitimate homeless people, often with untreated mental health issues that make it very unlikely that they’ll ever escape homelessness without a whole bunch of help they’re unlikely to ever get. The people who are panhandling to exploit human sympathy make life worse for the ones who actually need sympathy in a lot of ways including causing harsher laws to be enacted.
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You know, I used to highly offended when people say "Homeless are that way because the choose to be Homeless..." Well now I know better after encountering a few such folks.

I try so hard not to be judgemental....
 
Ed Ames said:
They yell, chase, threaten, intimidate, and otherwise make a commotion because a lot of people who would ignore a request will pay to stop a crazy person from chasing them around shouting for money. It’s a crime,
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What is the crime?
 
Kleanbore said:
What is the crime?
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That depends on what exactly they are doing, and where, but in most places it would be the local equivalent of, “disturbing the peace”, and/or some variation on “assault”. I’ve known panhandlers that got dinged with both, with trespassing for dessert. A few places have specific laws in the books too.

Different areas have different enforcement policies of course, and there are plenty of places where aggressive panhandlers are apparently thought to add a sort of quaint charm to the urban life experience. The laws are still there even if not enforced.
 
While aggressive panhandling may qualify as simple assault, depending on the circumstances, it's important to understand that even if that is the case, it may not rise to the level of offense that justifies any response other than a verbal one.

Using pepper spray on someone can be a more serious offense than simple assault, depending on the circumstances.

Anyone who carries pepper spray (or any defensive weapon) needs to be familiar with the laws in their area governing its use. In some areas, and in some circumstances, pepper spray has been labelled as a deadly weapon. If you're in an area like that, you don't want to find out after the fact.
 
Thanks for the replies and making things more clear. The old man I'm not worry about since I haven't even seen him since he threw a fit on the sidewalk. The 17 y/o young man is a very different story and the one I'm actually worried about. So if the teen tries to land a hard punch on me or does what am I legally allow to do to protect myself? Or even worse manage to kick my door open and enter? Mind you I have chicken legs for arms and weak upper body strength. I live in IL.

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JohnKSa said:
While aggressive panhandling may qualify as simple assault, depending on the circumstances, it's important to understand that even if that is the case, it may not rise to the level of offense that justifies any response other than a verbal one.
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That was really the reason for my question.

JohnKSa said:
Anyone who carries pepper spray (or any defensive weapon) needs to be familiar with the laws in their area governing its use. In some areas, and in some circumstances, pepper spray has been labelled as a deadly weapon. If you're in an area like that, you don't want to find out after the fact.
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Yep.

whm1974 said:
17 y/o young man is a very different story and the one I'm actually worried about. So if the teen tries to land a hard punch on me or does what am I legally allow to do to protect myself? Or even worse manage to kick my door open and enter? Mind you I have chicken legs for arms and weak upper body strength. I live in IL.
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We cannot help you with that.
 
JohnKSa said:
While aggressive panhandling may qualify as simple assault, depending on the circumstances, it's important to understand that even if that is the case, it may not rise to the level of offense that justifies any response other than a verbal one.


Anyone who carries pepper spray (or any defensive weapon) needs to be familiar with the laws in their area governing its use. In some areas, and in some circumstances, pepper spray has been labelled as a deadly weapon. If you're in an area like that, you don't want to find out after the fact.
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As I said in my first reply to this thread:
“Pepper spray isn’t for aggressive panhandlers. It’s a weapon, and using a weapon is generally a crime unless you are actually being attacked. Panhandling isn’t an attack, it’s an annoyance.

“You’ll need to research state and local laws for the specifics.”
 
whm1974 said:
Mind you I have chicken legs for arms and weak upper body strength. I live in IL.
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:what:


Just do your best to stay out of trouble and maybe you can take some martial Arts classes, it'll give you confidence and help you build strength. Then you can upgrade to having human arms... For arms. Or something .:alien:
 
Obturation said:
:what:


Just do your best to stay out of trouble and maybe you can take some martial Arts classes, it'll give you confidence and help you build strength. Then you can upgrade to having human arms... For arms. Or something .:alien:
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Good ideal. Maybe start lifting some weights and do indoor exercises as well.
 
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