Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

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After following this for a while and being home the day of the hearings I have a question for the lawyers here.

Could any of the government officials found complicit in this operation be liable under civil law for wrongful death in the murder of Brian Terry?

Watching the hearings that day it was the only thing I could imagine that would get all the agents who had boots on the ground to blast their bosses like that. Their federal careers are over at this point.

If this investagation continues I wonder where the BATFE will end up. If you think about it BATFE should be a cheerleader for legal gun use. Obviously as an agency this is not the case. As an agency they don't believe in the rights laid out in the second amendment. Now, I do think they have agents who don't think that way but BATFE management is as anti gun as Sarah Brady.
 
just another bit of "proof" that "our" government no longer serves WE THE PEOPLE. they serve themselves.
 
Those responsible should be jailed. They won't be and the ATF will keep right on abusing the law, the Constitution, the will of congress, and the citizens of the country.
 
More than that x wrench. They believe that the people exist to serve them.
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I am reminded of a cartoon I once saw -- a pro football player is talking to the coach, "When you make as much money as I do, then you can tell me how to throw a forward pass."

That sums up the attitude of the never-held-a-real-job bureaucrats -- "When you ordinary working slobs make as much money as we do, then you can expect us to serve you."
 
Could any of the government officials found complicit in this operation be liable under civil law for wrongful death in the murder of Brian Terry?
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They should be, but I don't think current law will allow for the heirs/relatives of a federal government employee to sue the federal government or its representatives for either negligent or knowing impropriety. Lawyers here at THR may be able to clarify, but I would think that if it were possible we'd hear about it happening a lot.
 
They should be, but I don't think current law will allow for the heirs/relatives of a federal government employee to sue the federal government or its representatives for either negligent or knowing impropriety.
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The bar to a suit is that they did what they did as part of their official duties.

In which case they should make their job descriptions public and show us the part where it says, "Gets Federal Law Enforcement Officers killed by facilitating the sale of firearms to drug smugglers."
 
Yep, Vern. A quote comes to mind:

"They may promise to govern well, but they mean to govern. They may promise to be good masters...but they mean to be masters."

And another one:

"Those who would aspire to positions of power are the very ones who shouldn't have it."
 
Amen, Tuner! Amen!

About 15 years ago my wife wanted to take a tour of Europe, so we signed up for a "student tour." Our guide was a cute little Scots gal, who kept asking questions. "Why do you Americans complain so much about taxes? We say taxes are the price for living in a free country."

And some Ugly American replied, "Sweetheart, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, not eternal taxation."

He could have gone on to point out the more money you give them, the stronger the chains they can buy to keep you subdued.
 
Holder should be indicted, but that ain't gonna happen, either.
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If they can trace this to Holder fast enough, Obama will FIRE him... even if Obama gave the orders.

Obama's not going to go into the election trying to defend arming the cartels, especially with a dead Border Patrol agent. He'll shoot Holder under the bus with a cannon.
 
Gotta agree for the most part here; although there is an element of truth to it.

Somewhere in the DoJ ivory tower, a bureaucrat who probably has a masters degree in public policy; probably thought this was a good idea. And this operation may have looked good on paper; but as most of us know, things fall apart when the real world comes to play. And since it was passed down to the ATF from the center of pure thought, the ivory tower of justice; ATF management probably didn't have the stones to say that the plan was not workable. So they muddled ahead with full willingness to leave their agents out to dry if this thing went bad.

And bad it went. And now ATF management is leaving its agents out to dry, and die. While the administration and DoJ play dumb.

The part that rings true about this being a shot at making the point that our 2nd amendment is killing people in Mexico is that the government did put forth the notion about American guns ending up in Mexico. And the main stream press, for the most part, carried and drank the cool aid on the story.

So in that sense it was an attack on our 2nd amendment; but it wasn't a direct attack, it was an ancillary/bonus to some bureaucratic hacks master plan. I guess that is the kind of thing that one learns how to do when training for a "masters" in "public policy".

@Deanimator: I do not know about that my friend. Obama became President running on no professional or academic background. Well, no background that could be verified, to this day. He's hung out with known terrorists (Ayers for example), was an open marxist, raised by and never denying being influenced by communists, attended a racist/marxist church with jihadist sympathies, is an open devotee of Alinsky and Clowerd-Piven, he's openly made finacial legislation that will intentionally harm the economy, he's forced socialized health care onto a population that does not want it, and has never worked wherever tried.

While you make a very valid point, this guy isn't about playing by the typical rules of politics.
 
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Looks like some political maneuvering.




http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...ion-for-us-officials-responsible-for-botched/



U.S. Officials Behind 'Fast and Furious' Gun Sales Should Be Tried in Mexico, Lawmaker Says

By William La Jeunesse

Published July 05, 2011

| FoxNews.com


While the investigation continues into the U.S. operation that helped send thousands of guns south of the border, Mexican lawmakers say they'll press for extradition and prosecution in Mexico of American officials who authorized and ran the operation.
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That sounds fair to me. Let's see Holder and his cronies arrested and sent to face a trial in the country they harmed.
 
usmarine0352_2005 said:
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Looks like some political maneuvering.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...ion-for-us-officials-responsible-for-botched/
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Have we been in the habit of allowing government officials to be extradited for foreign trials?

I do not know about that my friend. Obama became President running on no professional or academic background. Well, no background that could be verified, to this day. He's hung out with known terrorists (Ayers for example), was an open marxist, raised by and never denying being influenced by communists, attended a racist/marxist church with jihadist sympathies, is an open devotee of Alinsky and Clowerd-Piven, he's openly made finacial legislation that will intentionally harm the economy, he's forced socialized health care onto a population that does not want it, and has never worked wherever tried.
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You forgot to mention being Kenyan. And possibly being a lizard person.
 
Can't imagine we'd ever actually set the precedent of extraditing a government official for trial elsewhere, but if the Mexicans issue some sort of arrest warrant for Holder and other officials involved it really puts Obama in a hard spot. It's embarrassing internationally, and leaving the people involved in office means essentially telling Latin America that we really do think as little of them as they always think we do. Removing them from office may be the most palatable course of action for O & Crew.
 
MUCH worse. This marks some very serious bureaucratic infighting. The ATF head just formally declared that he won't be the fall guy.

Smart move, in my opinion. He's an acting appointment - which means that he has no political cover. A prime candidate to go under the bus, and off to prison. So he's essentially turned State's Evidence.
 
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Oops.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...us-gun-probe-atf-director-says/#ixzz1RNgm8w7m


According to sources, unbeknown to the ATF, the target of their operation was a FBI confidential informant, a fact that only became known to them in April of this year after an 18-month investigation that cost millions of dollars of tax dollars.

"They were going after someone they could never have," a source in Washington told Fox News. "The Mr. Big they wanted was using government money to buy guns that went to the cartels. The FBI knew it and didn't tell them."
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