Kel-Tec or Kahr

[Super Trucker]

Hi all,
I am looking at both the Kel-Tec and Kahr model P40. I have not had a chance to shoot or hold either. This would be a pocket gun for use while working ( truck driver ) I will use another gun for non work use. any input on reliability, recoil, or any other info would be greatly appreciated. I am aware the Kel-Tec P40 has been discontinued, and is about $300.00 cheaper than the similar model Kahr.
Thanks

 

[mod12]

kt p40

it is my understanding that the pistol was discontinued because of the shooter's inability to control [read limpwristing] the .40 in that small a package. i have never owned one. i do have a p11 and a p3at that i am well pleased with. if you go to www.ktrange.com there is a forum where owners still post and current info is available.

 

[horge]

There's the KTOG (Kel-Tec Owners Group) Forum as well.

 

[Jiml3]

For a small pocket gun, I would not pick a 40 caliber. Too much power to handle in a stressful situation. Much better off with a 9 mm. The choice between Kel Tec and Kahr is that Kahr a much better manufactured gun. When it comes to your life, what's it worth to know you can trust your life with it. If the recoil in a small pocket gun does not affect you, look around on this forum and others for used Kahr PM 40's that people are willing to sell for about $450. I think in a lot of cases they found the 40mm too much to handle in a small gun.

 

[Zundfolge]

I think in a lot of cases they found the 40mm too much to handle in a small gun.

I agree with Jiml3 here if you want 40mm stick with a crew served weapon

Seriously though, I know what he's getting at... if you really want the .40 get the Kahr MK40 as the weight of the steel will soak up some recoil (with the little MK40 I used to own I was able to shoot one handed ... but just barely, I fear the much lighter PM40 would just be too light to shoot one handed and actually hit anything ... plus they don't like to be limp-wristed and doing so may make your autoloader into a single shot).

Whenever I get the money together I plan on getting another MK40 (can't believe I sold it).

There are many who will argue that out of such a short barrel the edge of the .40 over the 9mm is lost as the barrel isn't long enough to build enough velocity to make the difference.

 

[eyz]

If you have to use it inside the vehicle, is it a good idea to have the brass bounceing around the cab or if you have to scare off a bad guy vagrant in the sticks on the side of the road do you want to leave brass behind. is it likely to be confiscated by the police at some point. will it be well cleaned and oiled. my short list would be....
makarov $179
bersa thunder 380 $199
keltec P3AT $259
snub 38spl $199
snub 357 $300
any Glock $450

I would lean towards a pair of 38spl steel frame revolvers. One to carry and one to hide really really well. As to the Kahr and the P40, my Kahr required a lot of lubrication (its no glock) and the P40 is discontinued. The keltec p11 is a good pistol with a very heavy trigger.

 

[azrael]

I own 2 p-11's....Love'em both and carry them often...I had trigger work done on them and they are decent now..Before they were horrible...

I dont own a Kahr...however I have shot one and liked it...Price is kinda steep but seemed like a decent weapon..

I would go with the 9mm for a pocket gun...That's just me

 

[Landric]

DO NOT BUY A KEL-TEC P40!

Regardless of what Kel-Tec and the zealots on KTOG say, the P40 did not work. It has serious reliability and safety issues, the most serious of which was bullet setback. When the pistol stripped the round from the magazine it would slam into the base of the feed ramp forcing the bullet back into the case and causing a "smile" shape on the nose of the bullet. Usually it would jam against the feed ramp, but sometime it would feed. I had a P40 that had this problem. I was far from alone, as the KTOG forum was alive with complaints about the same problem with P40s. All the zealots over there seem to have "forgotten" this serious safety issue now.

My P40 went back to KT three different times to correct the problem with the "smile". KT shipped the gun back to me three times telling me it was fixed. It never was. It became less and less feed reliable each time they cut some more metal off the feed ramp, but it never fixed the "smile" and bullet setback problem. Each time they sent it back to me, they claimed it was fixed. They lied, pure and simple. Anyone who actually shot this gun after "fixing" it would have seen the same problem I saw when it got back to me. So, I spent a small fortune shipping the thing back to them, and they never corrected the problem or paid for my shipping costs. So much for great KT customer service. The gun was also plagued by small parts breakage and other reliability problems.

I know I will catch flak for saying this, the KT zealots are just as nuts, if not more so, for Kel-Tecs as the 1911 and Glock zealots are.

KT makes some decent products, but they have a problem with quality control and the P40 was, as a rule, junk, with some samples working as intended. If you get a KT, get the 9x19mm version, but I'd get the Kahr.

 

[E36M3]

I really like my Kahr P9 and my Kel-Tec P-3AT. I'd keep the Kahr if I could only have one, but the Kel-Tec was bought strictly for pocket carry so that'd be my choice for that mode. It's not nearly as accurate or ergonomic, but is much, much more carriable in the pocket. Shoots pretty nicely, too.
My preferred pocket holster can be found at www.andrewsleather.com .

 

[Safety First]

Most of the people that have talked about pocket pistols have said that 14oz is a bit heavy for pocket carry. A few have said it was no problem, so what I am getting to is you may want to consider the Kel-tec P3AT if you are going to use for pocket carry. I have had a P3at for a few weeks it is 10 oz fully loaded and I hardly notice it. The weight factor is of course but one of several considerations...best of luck with your decision..

 

[mod12]

zelot

sure glad i'm a zelot [sic] those zealots are really wild about things!

 

[horge]

Originally posted by Zundfolge
I agree with Jiml3 here if you want 40mm stick with a crew served weapon

You're pretty brutal, Z.
You know that?

 

[at-home-daddy]

Is the Kahr PM9 a comfortable pocket gun? Putting aside any comparison to the .380 Kel-Tec, is the PM9 a pistol that carries comfortably -- both in size and weight -- in one's pants pocket (jeans, dress, etc.), or is more of a (albeit small) holster gun?

 

[Landric]

"sure glad i'm a zelot [sic] those zealots are really wild about things!"

Yea, I can't spell. When I start thinking about that total POS P40 I get all worked up and don't proof my typing. Doesn't change the facts about the P40 though.

 

[peashooter]

Kahr, without a doubt.

 

[mod12]

zelot

when it happens twice , it doesnt qualify as a typo.

 

[pistolwhipped]

I have a PM9 in my pocket now. (Dress pants at work)
It is very comfortable , however I would not carry that way in jeans. Of course when I wear jeans , I can carry a larger frame in holster. Shoots well at short range and has been reliable.

The P40 I owned for about three years and never had a problem with it. Never a misfire or misfeed. It was my bicycling weapon of choice in a belly pack at small of the back.
Sold it because I perferred the PM9 for pocket and bicycle carry.

 

[MyRoad]

In .40 I went for a Kahr K40 - that's a really nice gun that you can actually shoot all day and enjoy, and it's definitely small enough for comfortable IWB carry in nice, thin, kydex holster.

For pocket carry, I have the PM9 -- have it in my pocket as I type. With loose fitting jeans (after you get used to it) you'll forget it's there. With light weight pants it's a bit clunky, and with 'traditional' fitting jeans, well, I find it tough to jam my hand in my pocket and get it out in a hurry, and it tends to print more... needless to say I only pocket carry it with loose fitting jeans. It's also very easy to carry in a SmartCarry, if you're wearing shorts or sweat pants with an elastic waste.

I've looked at, handled, but never fired the KelTec .380 (P3AT?) - it just feels too much like a toy to trust my life with. While the PM9 is pretty snappy with +P ammo, it will fire it if you're comfortable with it, and it feels like a real gun. The night sights on mine are outstanding, and I've never had any failures or problems with it.

 

[pistolwhipped]

MyRoad,
What kind of night sights do you have on the PM9 ?

 

[Super Trucker]

Thanks for all the great info everybody, some of which I hadn't thought about much, I see most like the Kahr. I was concerned with some other forums saying that the pm9 or 40 are not reliable, I guess they were wrong.

 

[KLR]

Mod12-

Landric wrote:
"Yea, I can't spell. When I start thinking about that total POS P40 I get all worked up and don't proof my typing".

You wrote
"when it happens twice , it doesnt qualify as a typo".

He didn't say it was a typo. He said that he is poor at spelling and did not proof his typing. Had his communication been handwritten, he would have said that he did not proof his writing.

I cannot say that I have never attacked spelling and grammar in someone's post, but you might want to make sure you accurately interpret what is written before opening up.

You seem to be taking any Kel-Tec criticism pretty personally.

 

[KLR]

Super Trucker- I load my off-duty PM-9 with Federal 9mm +P Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ). Seems to work fine. It did have to go back to Kahr once, though. I have an MK-9 that had to go back too. My experience is very atypical, though. Most Kahrs are utterly reliable out of the box. Just make sure to test it out with your chosen carry load before carrying it.

 

[mod12]

klr, it's nice to meet landric's big bro.

 

[71Commander]

I have the best od both worlds. I picked up a North American Arms .380 Guardian on Tuesday. It is a Kel-Tec sized gun with Kahr as a partnership in the production.

 

[KLR]

Mod12

"klr, it's nice to meet landric's big bro".