Kel-Tec P-11 or Taurus P-111

[alamo]

The Kel-Tec was NOT offered with a stainless slide - it was HARD CHROMED.

It was offered in stainless steel back around 1997-98 but the hard chrome replaced it. This was the P-11 only.

 

[pocketgun]

Pocketgun, did they have as many tort lawyers in 1920 as they have now? Heck, they used to carry single actions that required loading five with one under the hammer empty. They USED to do a lot of things and if you blew your cojones off, oh, well. LOL! It was a different, and I'll argue better, time. I think Darwin ruled a little more and stupid genes got weeded out back then a little better. The grip safety is a good thing, though, IMHO. With that and especially with a firing pin block, the AMT is probably a safe enough gun for condition one. But, reading about any striker fired gun in about any magazine and the writer will always caution to carry it condition three in a pocket. I sorta think that's a good idea myself. But, if you don't have qualms about it, hey, it's your cojones.

Thing is, I have never ever personally met someone who had a quality striker-fired pocket pistol go off in a pocket inadvertently; nor have I read an actual report of it happenening anywhere. I think the whole argument is another gunwriter-inspired myth - at least for quality weapons. I have not forgotten believing that the Browning Baby I carried stoked with 7 rounds of MagSafe .25ACP was a 50% One Shot Stopper in "actual street shootings", etc. - more nonsense I bought into because I read it in a gun magazine and thought it was factual. (I know, I was younger and dumber back then.) Gun mags will tell you whatever they feel like to sell their advertiser's products, be it fancy ammo with magic bullets or modern double action pistols. Truth is, I would be way more concerned about getting the drawstring and cordlock of a windbreaker caught in a holster with my Glock than having my Colt Vest Pocket, Browning Baby, or AMT Backup SA somehow going off of its own accord while riding in my pocket in condition one. (Hasn't stopped me from carrying a Glock, BTW.) I would also be more afraid of getting killed by a BG while having to use two hands to rack a slide.

 

[pocketgun]

It was offered in stainless steel back around 1997-98 but the hard chrome replaced it. This was the P-11 only.

Yes, it replaced the Electroless Nickel model of 1995 (first year of P-11 production) and was replaced by the Hard Chrome model in 1999. Blued models have been in production since 1995, Parkerized since 1997.

 

[MCgunner]

I know a guy who's Raven shot him in the leg. I don't know what caused it, but had that gun been carried condition three, that wouldn't have happened. Of course, that was a Raven after all.

But, I don't like striker fired pocket guns and will continue to prefer double action. When I was much younger and CCW was illegal in Texas, I carried a tiny little POS RG 25. Now, this little gun wasn't terribly accurate past 15 feet, but it fed just fine, never jammed with that Winchester pellet nose stuff. I carried it in my back pocket in a home made holster made to look like a wallet. A rear jeans pocket devoured it. I had sense enough then to figure out I was safer carrying that thing condition three. Took milliseconds to rack the slide. I'm glad I don't have to resort to such a carry gun anymore. LOL!

I don't care for Glock "safe actions" either for pocket carry or even IWB without the 8 lb trigger mod. I don't carry Glocks, prefer DA/SA IWB or DAO pocket carry. I have carried a 1911 condition one on the hip, though. I had it in a thumb snap holster with the strap in front of the hammer, but I wouldn't feel unsafe with a series 80 IWB in a Sparks Summer Special. It has enough redundant safeties and a good track record. Like anything else, it requires training to use and since I like revolvers so much and since revolvers and SA autos are significantly different in manual of arms, I just prefer to carry a DA gun now days. Pull the trigger and it goes bang, no matter if it's one of my revolvers or one of my autos. Everyone has their preferences for one reason or another. I just prefer the inherent safety of the DA gun to go along with good training. Makes me feel better and I shoot DA just fine. I wouldn't be a customer for that Taurus now that it's a striker fired single action, nope, not me.

 

[Hypnogator]

I would definitely go for the Taurus. I have a PT-145 Millennium Pro that I love, which I bought to replace my Kel-Tec P-11 after the third time it physically b-r-o-k-e while firing.

 

[pocketgun]

MCgunner: yeah, the Raven doesn't count on my "quality" list - the safety is just too easily wiped off in a pocket. Doesn't surprise me that you have heard of an accident with one. TxCajun (a member on this board) once had the safety on his Davis .380 come off in his pocket, and a friend had the same thing happen with a Jennings J-22. I wouldn't want to carry any, especially in condition one.

I too now carry DA autos with my P-3AT and P-40. I like not having to manipulate a safety in a crisis. What you said about training is the key. With SA/DA, DAO, or SA it really comes down to having a complete understanding of how the weapon works and having practiced using it properly long enough to make it very familiar.

I have had some bad experiences with Taurus before and won't buy another, but the Millenium (Pro?) I did handle seemed an interesting carry weapon.

 

[Goodshot]

Is there any way to get a round in the chamber of a new DA/SA Millenium Pro without it being SA on the first shot ? It seems to me that by pulling back the slide to get the first round chambered that the weapon would always be SA, unless it missfired, in which case it has DA second strike ability.

 

[kokapelli]

Is there any way to get a round in the chamber of a new DA/SA Millenium Pro without it being SA on the first shot ? It seems to me that by pulling back the slide to get the first round chambered that the weapon would always be SA, unless it missfired, in which case it has DA second strike ability.

The new Pro pistols are single action.

They are not decockers and do not have a hammer that can be lowered.

When you rack the slide, in a Pro, you have cocked the striker!

You must retract the slide in oder to chamber a round.

The only other way of getting a cartridge into the chamber without moving the slide to the rear, would be to jamb it in through the muzzle.

 

[Goodshot]

Thanks Koke ! That's what I was thinking. It's similiar to the XD. It just has second strike capability. I was hoping they were made with a decocker...