Cpt. America
Member
Go with the P11 its a sold well built, reliable firearm.
kel-tec pf9 or other?
- Thread starter eight433
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midiwall
Member
The PF-9 is a great gun... It's my daily carry.
Recoil wise, remember that this is the lightest 9mm on the market - it's gonna kick. A Hogue handall Jr and a rear pad from KTAddOns.com will help a LOT. Also check into the Fluff & Buff threads on KTOG that talk about smoothing down all the sharp edges.
PF-9 with a CT laser, Hogue Handall Jr, KTAddons rear pad, heatshrink tubing on trigger, Kahr PM9 grip extention, and smoothed everywhere. I can shoot it all day:
Recoil wise, remember that this is the lightest 9mm on the market - it's gonna kick. A Hogue handall Jr and a rear pad from KTAddOns.com will help a LOT. Also check into the Fluff & Buff threads on KTOG that talk about smoothing down all the sharp edges.
PF-9 with a CT laser, Hogue Handall Jr, KTAddons rear pad, heatshrink tubing on trigger, Kahr PM9 grip extention, and smoothed everywhere. I can shoot it all day:
Or if you want to keep it in it's stock configuration, just wear a PACT Shooting glove on that hand. I carry the PF9 daily in a Galco pocket holster. I replaced my P11 because of the grip width as the PF9 is much easier to conceal. MCGunner made mention of the magazine extension. When I go to the range with my PF9, that is the magazine I practice with. It truly does help in keeping the recoil from chewing up a raw spot in the web of the hand. With that magazine extension I can run 50 rounds before I start to feel the rub!!
Quoheleth
Member
Two quick comments:
Do some fast soul-searching. If you want a CCW rig, jump on that PF9 like it was the last burger at a BIGGEST LOOSER reunion. I've been looking for one since Valentine's Day. I either "just miss" the last one, or "we haven't seen one in _____ weeks."
If, however, you want a range gun, go to your bank and withdraw CASH. However much you budget, take it in cash. That's it. No debit or credit cards. If you have $300 to spend, that will keep you from the "upgrading" to a Springfield Loaded. You will be forced to the used gun rack or the S&W Sigma, Bersa, Taurus price range. (A second benefit is sometimes cash talks where plastic or checks don't. )
Check CDNN. For $300, you might be surprised what kind of police trade-in you can find.
Q
Do some fast soul-searching. If you want a CCW rig, jump on that PF9 like it was the last burger at a BIGGEST LOOSER reunion. I've been looking for one since Valentine's Day. I either "just miss" the last one, or "we haven't seen one in _____ weeks."
If, however, you want a range gun, go to your bank and withdraw CASH. However much you budget, take it in cash. That's it. No debit or credit cards. If you have $300 to spend, that will keep you from the "upgrading" to a Springfield Loaded. You will be forced to the used gun rack or the S&W Sigma, Bersa, Taurus price range. (A second benefit is sometimes cash talks where plastic or checks don't. )
Check CDNN. For $300, you might be surprised what kind of police trade-in you can find.
Q
eight433
Member
how much do those ct lasers run? that looks badass. MUCH better than the one that clips to the lower front edge like i saw earlier.
MCgunner
Member
I'm kiinda wantin' one of these. Anyone have one?
http://www.armalaser.com/
For the PF9, they have a really compact model....
http://www.armalaser.com/
For the PF9, they have a really compact model....
midiwall
Member
'cept that means I'll kinda' be wanting to wear the glove all the time when I carry. They tend to clash with my white shorts and Izod shirts...bigmike45 said:
Depends on the gun. Most of the CT trigger guard models can be had for about $160.eight433 said:
CT's site with MSRP's:
http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/tabid/55/Default.aspx
Great CT prices:
http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merch.../Crimson_Trace_Semi_Auto_Handgun_Laser_Sights
midiwall
Member
fwiw, that's the new(er) RSS model versus the "box". If no one pops up here, head over to KTOG.org and search the PF-9 archives. There are a couple of folks there that have them.MCgunner said:
MCgunner
Member
Well, I'd have to get "the box" since I have a P11 and it has no rail. I sorta see why the rail on the PF9 now. At first, I thought it was stupid, until I saw this tiny little 0.6 ounce (with batteries) laser mounted on it. Pretty awesome.
At first, I thought it was stupid, until I saw this tiny little 0.6 ounce (with batteries) laser mounted on it. Pretty awesome.eight433
Member
I'm kiinda wantin' one of these. Anyone have one?
For the PF9, they have a really compact model....
that is EXACTLY what i want! Is that what they consider the "parkerized" finish
and i think i like that laser a little better yet! alot smaller than the others i've seen. I would love the black w/ silver top, but i would settle for olive drab and blued
as far as taking cash, thats a very good idea. But the gun shop offers layaway. I think i'll go put some money down on it tomorrow. I dont really need the gun right away anyways, and I dont have time to shoot right now either, so layaway seems like a good option.
eight433
Member
yeah but i'm not telling you WHERE i found one cause i'm gonna go plunk my moneys down tomorrow! weeeee!
well, central-ish michigan anyways.
well, central-ish michigan anyways.
eight433
Member
yup. just one. they seem to be in QUITE high demand.
BlacklabelOP
member
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+1 snap the pf-9 up... good little gun and is always in my CCW rotation.
eight433
Member
Well then- not to be rude, but maybe you should start your OWN thread instead of hijacking mine
Personally I would suggest the Bersa 380 for you. It is nice to shoot, accurate and would make a much better plinker and a capable carry gun. The only caveate being if you can find 380 ammo in your area. The PF9 probably does recoil a bit much for an inexperienced shooter. You may not enjoy shooting it. Another possibility would be a steel framed 38 snub nosed revolver. Easy to carry and conceal. Fun to shoot but it does take some serious practice to master reloading quickly. Accessories, holsters, etc.... are also readily available for both of those options.
eight433
Member
well I'm not sure I would call myself an "inexperienced" shooter. This would be my 5th hand gun. Its just that my other 4 are not very "modern" shooters. I have a S&W 41, H&A .32 cal, and two .36 black powder revolvers. Obviously, NONE of those are worthy carry weapons.
MCgunner
Member
The little compact 9s are by FAR the most practical carries IMHO. The Bersa is a nice gun, but it's bigger, heavier, not so pocket friendly. Why would I go that route for carry? The PF9 ain't hard to shoot, either. Once you get a small 9, you'll wonder why they bother making all those porky, oversized .380s.
thunder173
Member
I'd go with the PF9, though I don't personally have one, tho I do own two KelTec's, and have no regrets with either. They are carry guns,...not range guns. Used within the context of their intended purpose,...they should serve you well. If the PF9 is as good as they claim it to be,...I wouldn't have any issue with one. Too many snobs out there. If it works,..and it runs well for you,....carry it.
As far as holsters for it,....I have the belt clips on both a P3AT and a P-11,...have carried both IWB, sans holster, regulary for a good while, and in many different situations. Never once had either slip out, fall,..or go anywhere it wasn't supposed to go. I wear a good stout belt most often,..but have carried both without a belt when wearing jeans. The bare grip against the skin is discomforting sometimes,..but I have gotten used to it. Sometimes I use a Bianchi Pro 100 IWB, but most often not, or I carry the P-11 in a belt slide minimalist type holster. The P3AT is always carried with just the belt clip, IWB at 4 oclock. All I can say is,..."Each to their own",...YMMV
As far as holsters for it,....I have the belt clips on both a P3AT and a P-11,...have carried both IWB, sans holster, regulary for a good while, and in many different situations. Never once had either slip out, fall,..or go anywhere it wasn't supposed to go. I wear a good stout belt most often,..but have carried both without a belt when wearing jeans. The bare grip against the skin is discomforting sometimes,..but I have gotten used to it. Sometimes I use a Bianchi Pro 100 IWB, but most often not, or I carry the P-11 in a belt slide minimalist type holster. The P3AT is always carried with just the belt clip, IWB at 4 oclock. All I can say is,..."Each to their own",...YMMV
The Bersa is nearly identical in size to the PF9 and the weight difference is not worth mentioning. Neither weapon is a pocket weapon unless you have very large pockets. I'm 5'10 230lbs and I don't have any pants I could draw either from. Both would be much better carried IWB.
MCgunner
Member
Funny, I'm sitting here with my P11 in my jeans pocket and it draws pretty quick. You must DRESS for the gun. Ever wear a pair of carpenter's jeans or perhaps Wrangler cargos? The front pockets have plenty of room for a P11 and pocket holster. Hell, I often carry a bigger Taurus M85SSUL .38 snub in those pockets. Lots of people carry 642s in a pocket.
The P11 is 14 ounces unloaded and more compact than a J frame. Anything much over 20 unloaded and I find it uncomfortable to carry all day, just personally, YMMV, but I know a M36 Smith is too heavy for me and a SP101, forget it. And, I have a 12 ounce .380 I don't carry because the 9x19 is so easy to carry, why should I settle for a 90 grain Hornady XTP at 190 ft lbs when I can carry a 115 grain Hornady XTP at 410 ft lbs? With the 9, I'm reasonably certain I can get expansion AND enough penetration. It might not matter in a given shoot, but call me crazy, I prefer the power if it's not too much a trade off. And with the 9, we're talkin' light .357 power, or some .357 snub full power loads without the flash bang OR the recoil. I call that GREAT!
If I'm going to carry a .380, it's going to be because it's a lot easier to carry in the dress I'm forced with for the day. We're talkin' LCP/P3AT here, not Bersa. The Bersa has no advantage on my P11 as a CCW, none, not power, not accuracy, not reliability, not capacity, not concealability, not price, none. That's why I don't have one, though they are good guns I have no doubt and they're quite affordable. If I suddenly contract arthritis in my wrist, I may change my mind, but for now, I don't own a Bersa. I do have an LCP in my sights as my next gun, but I probably won't carry it, much, just want the option in concealment between my P11 and my NAA mini which I don't like to carry as a primary for obvious reasons. Lord knows it's concealable, though.
As far as shooting the P11, I've fired a lot of rounds through it. I normally put 100 rounds in a range session through it. I've fired all the available cheap off the shelf 115 ball ammo for practice, but one of my favorite practice rounds is no harder on me than .380. It consists of a 105 grain cast SWC sized to .357 (Lee mold) loaded over 3.2 grains Bullseye for 1110 fps chronographed. It doesn't lead, it's light enough that the brass piles up at my feet, but it's 100 percent feed and ejection. It's easy on the gun, and it's very accurate. I also load this same bullet over 3.6 grains Unique in .380 for 920 fps and it's quite accurate. The bullet is free (lead is free from the range backstop). All they cost is a primer, a tiny bit of powder, and a little time with my Dillon progressive. Now, for the non-handloader, this ain't an option for practice, but it works well for me and the 9x19 recoil is little worse than a .380, probably less than a .380 from a smaller gun.
The P11 is 14 ounces unloaded and more compact than a J frame. Anything much over 20 unloaded and I find it uncomfortable to carry all day, just personally, YMMV, but I know a M36 Smith is too heavy for me and a SP101, forget it. And, I have a 12 ounce .380 I don't carry because the 9x19 is so easy to carry, why should I settle for a 90 grain Hornady XTP at 190 ft lbs when I can carry a 115 grain Hornady XTP at 410 ft lbs? With the 9, I'm reasonably certain I can get expansion AND enough penetration. It might not matter in a given shoot, but call me crazy, I prefer the power if it's not too much a trade off. And with the 9, we're talkin' light .357 power, or some .357 snub full power loads without the flash bang OR the recoil. I call that GREAT!
If I'm going to carry a .380, it's going to be because it's a lot easier to carry in the dress I'm forced with for the day. We're talkin' LCP/P3AT here, not Bersa. The Bersa has no advantage on my P11 as a CCW, none, not power, not accuracy, not reliability, not capacity, not concealability, not price, none. That's why I don't have one, though they are good guns I have no doubt and they're quite affordable. If I suddenly contract arthritis in my wrist, I may change my mind, but for now, I don't own a Bersa. I do have an LCP in my sights as my next gun, but I probably won't carry it, much, just want the option in concealment between my P11 and my NAA mini which I don't like to carry as a primary for obvious reasons. Lord knows it's concealable, though.
As far as shooting the P11, I've fired a lot of rounds through it. I normally put 100 rounds in a range session through it. I've fired all the available cheap off the shelf 115 ball ammo for practice, but one of my favorite practice rounds is no harder on me than .380. It consists of a 105 grain cast SWC sized to .357 (Lee mold) loaded over 3.2 grains Bullseye for 1110 fps chronographed. It doesn't lead, it's light enough that the brass piles up at my feet, but it's 100 percent feed and ejection. It's easy on the gun, and it's very accurate. I also load this same bullet over 3.6 grains Unique in .380 for 920 fps and it's quite accurate. The bullet is free (lead is free from the range backstop). All they cost is a primer, a tiny bit of powder, and a little time with my Dillon progressive. Now, for the non-handloader, this ain't an option for practice, but it works well for me and the 9x19 recoil is little worse than a .380, probably less than a .380 from a smaller gun.
It also depends on the size of you hand. I have wide hands and if you add the height of the weapon from the top of my hand to the top of the rear sight you add about another inch. It takes a pretty big pocket opening to do that. I carried a p11 for several years IWB. I gaurantee 99% of people would should much more accurately with a Bersa than a p11. The P11 has poor sights and a long heavy double action only pull with a narrow trigger. The Bersa has less recoil, better sights, and a much better trigger. Especially after the double action first pull. The p11 is the more powerful weapon to be sure but fun to shoot it is NOT. I sold mine and bought a M&P 9C which is 10 times the weapon that KT was. IF that is in your budget the M&P or a Glock 26 is really the best way to go.
eight433
Member
I went back to the un named gun shop and held a keltec .380.... WAYYYY too small. I ended up putting some money down on the pf9. It will be mine in a maximum of 90 days
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