Kobra vs. Vortex Sparc red dot sights

[dirtymike1]

Ok, so I'm looking to get a red dot for my Saiga rifle and it's down to these two. I can't afford a nice Aimpoint or EO Tech but I've heard good things about both of these sights and I wanted to know what you all thought.

Kobra-

Pros

It's a true Russian Military sight
Completes the feel of the rifle IMO
Open style sight

Con

Singal weapon use


Sparc-

Pros

Very tough sight, I've read a few threads were people have torture tested them and just straight abused them and they keep on working.
Can use on multiple rifle (I'm looking to build an AR soon)


Con

Tube style sight which I just don't like



So what say you? Which would you rather have?

 

[-v-]

A Kobra with a weaver mount. Yes, you can get them.

 

[dirtymike1]

Link?

I've only seen the Kobra for sale with the intergrated side mount. I would get a side mount for the Sparc as well, I don't like the look of the rails on the hand guard...

 

[mshootnit]

Lets see: Kobra approved by Kalashnikov personally and in use by Russian military
Vortex: not so much.

I think I'll go with the Kobra.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Vortex SPARC. Assuming you live in North America, that is. If you live in Russia, maybe a Kobra would make sense. Over here in the 'states, it's nice to have a sight with a regular import channel, parts, service, oh did I mention a lifetime warranty that the maker/importer actually really stands behind?

No contest in my view, though at the moment the poll says I'm in the minority.

I have a Vortex Strikefire, and for the money it's very hard to beat. And it's really nice knowing that if it breaks 20 years from now, they'll just replace it. If the Kobra breaks even 5 years from now, I doubt it's anything better than a paperweight.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I have no experience with the other optic, but I have a Kobra on my Romanian AK right now. It is a decent optic, esp for the money. If you're going with a siderail mount, it would be a logical choice. I like the interchangeable reticules on it.



But the optic isn't perfect. While lower than the PK-AS-V it replaced, it still sits higher than I would like. I think that will probably be true of just about any of the siderail mounted optics though. That is why I am keeping the Kobra on my rifle until I can afford the Ultimak/Aimpoint combo. I don't know if is the tinting or lens coating on the optics, but it doesn't seem as bright and clear as many of the Western optics I've seen, even those in the same price point. It's battery life is decent but not outstanding, esp compared to the Aimpoint, though being able to take regular AA batteries is a plus. And you have to memorize a little Russian to adjust and use the optic. Other than that, mine has been pretty durable. I haven't really abused it, but its taken some bumps and at least 500 rounds without losing its zero.



Like I said, a decent optic, but not without its faults. On a budget and considering only siderail mounts, it is a good choice. The best set up I've come across is the Ultimak with the Aimpoint though, and so I consider the Kobra a solid optic to hold me over until it can be replaced with something better.

 

[mshootnit]

I've said it on here at leas a half dozen times, but if the gas tube was a smart place to put the mount the Russians would have done it. The side mount is where its at. The Kobra is the best side mount optic for the simple fact that it is parallax free. The Bindon aiming concept applies and the tinted lense is irrelevant once you learn both eyes open shooting. I find that I can engage targets in total darkness with my Kobra. Along these lines I feel (but cannot prove) that an AK-74 with mounted Kobra is a faster weapon to utilize than an M4 with an Aimpoint or similar.

 

[DBR]

I have both the Vortex and the Kobra. I like the optics of the Kobra but it is heavy and parts/repair is nonexistant in my experience.

I have a like new Weaver mount Kobra that I would gladly sell except that the on/of switch broke because the waterproof packing was too tight and I have yet to find a replacement part.

The Vortex I have on an AR seems to be an excellent optic for the money and well supported by the company. It can be side mounted on an AK with a couple of mounts.
Try here: http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/

I prefer a tube type dot sight because they are much less subject to spurious reflections from off axis light sources.

 

[rangerruck]

I russian friend of mine says, when buying kobra or kalinka anything, " buyer beware" about the quality control, and also forget about customer service.
Vortex I believe is american made, maybe even in the Greatest State- Texas, and has lifetime warranty action.
Vortex baby. You can also do sightmark, which is also warrantied and Texas made i believe.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Vortex is a US company based in Wisconsin, but nearly all of their products are imported from various east Asian countries. I believe the red dot sights are made in China.

I do not know of ANY US-made red dot sight other than the Trijicon models and the EOTech (which isn't exactly a RDS but people view it as the same). Aimpoint is Swedish and nearly all others are asian, mostly China but with a few exceptions (SPOT from Korea, and one venerable brand from Japan the name of which escapes me at the moment).

I would be surprised if the Sightmark is US-made, but since I'm not familiar with it I don't know.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I've said it on here at leas a half dozen times, but if the gas tube was a smart place to put the mount the Russians would have done it. The side mount is where its at.

You're wrong, and it doesn't matter how many times you say it...you'll still be wrong.

The Ultimak with the Aimpoint is where it is at. It sits lower, its faster, and more accurate. While it ads a few ounces up front and requires and optic that can deal with the heat, this is of little consequence given the advantages it offers. I have dealt with the Kobra and the PK-AS-V on the sidemount. These setups are always awkward by comparison--little to no cheek weld and forget about co-witnessing irons. It doesn't matter who you are; military trained and combat tested, just a little into guns, or no experience at all--I have yet to see single person shoot my Romanian AK with the Kobra on it next to my brother's Romanian AK with the Ultimak/Aimpoint set up and actually prefer the Kobra. The Aimpoint is simply faster and more precise. In fact, there really isn't much of a comparison. The only advantage the Kobra has is that it is less expensive.

 

[strambo]

I've said it on here at leas a half dozen times, but if the gas tube was a smart place to put the mount the Russians would have done it. The side mount is where its at.

...so by that logic: if putting a selector on the left side to be thumb operated while keeping a good firing grip was smart, they'd have done that too? Same for last round bolt hold open feature?

 

[boricua9mm]

The Ultimak with the Aimpoint is where it is at. It sits lower, its faster, and more accurate. While it ads a few ounces up front and requires and optic that can deal with the heat, this is of little consequence given the advantages it offers.

That consequence is $400, which would be the difference in price between a Kobra and an Aimpoint T1. Don't get me wrong, I'm an Aimpoint fan through and through, but the price is MUCH higher than other serviceable red dots that would do okay on a side mount. The problem with the Ultimak is that it practically REQUIRES an Aimpoint. Anything else either cooks itself to death or depletes the batteries in short order.

While the extra $400 may be a pittance to some, it is a considerable amount of money to the majority of the members here.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Which is why, like I said, the only advantage the Kobra offers is that it is less expensive (I didn't even say "cheaper." It's a lot of optic for the money.). And why the Kobra is staying on there until I can save for the Ultimak/Aimpoint.

 

[boricua9mm]

Fair enough. All I'm saying is, a $700 optic setup sitting on top of a $400 AK isn't for everybody...

 

[RhodesianRLI]

The best for an AK in my mind is a Beryl type rail, like the Krebs or the TWS dogleg rail, with a a red dot mounted to it. I hate the look of anything mounted on an ultimak, it looks stupid to me, I wouldnt have it on my rifle if you paid me.

 

[66912]

I like my Kobra. I have had it mounted on and SLR-95 for 5 years now. I wanted a sight that was made for an AK. I did not want to have to make my AK for the sight. Like a previous poster stated. The Kobra is not a cheap sight, Just a less expensive option compared to the ultimak. My only issue is that I cannot read cyrillic writing and the adjustment process is counter intuitive to our Western way of doing things. It always cost me alot of rounds to get it right. Not meaning to hijack a thread but any suggestions would be of great help indeed.

 

[rangerruck]

try trijicon or sightmark; I know they are at least assembled in Texas, not sure on where they get their products/ pieces. That is , if you have to have somehting that remotely resembles american made.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Trijicon products are made in Wixom, Michigan. I'm not aware that they have any facility in Texas.

FWIW, EOTech sights are made in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

 

[rangerruck]

...hmm.. then who the heck else has an optics facility here in Texas? some other decent sized player, but i thought it was Trij...

 

[Al Thompson]

RR, it's Primary Arms, IIRC.

 

[benEzra]

I've heard a lot of good things about Primary Arms as well. If you don't shoot long strings of fire that would get the optic super hot, a Primary Arms Micro on an Ultimak would be a less-expensive stepping stone to an Aimpoint Micro on an Ultimak.

I run a Kobra on my SAR-1 for cost reasons, and I *really* like the selectable reticles and the crispness of the 1.8MOA dot However, the one downside of the Kobra (at least the Weaver-mount and Gen 2 siderail mount models) is that the shaft of the on/off switch is on the delicate side, and if it gets hard to turn and you don't take it apart and lubricate it, you can fatigue it enough to break it off. I've done it. It can be fixed, but you have to do it yourself with what you have, because you can't get parts.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=530849

I haven't heard of this happening on the AA-battery Kobras with the switch on the left side (like MTMilitiaman's upthread), though.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Primary Arms, as a company, may be based in Texas, but I'm 99.99% sure their branded red dots are imported, I believe from China PRC (other distant second guesses would be Taiwan and Korea). I'm sure they'll tell you if you call or email them. They get good reviews, but for a $100 Chinese knockoff sight, not in the same league as a true mil-spec sight.

I know I'm repeating myself, but for RDS type sights, Trijicon and EOTech make them in the US (the Bushnell Holosight might also be US made, I'm not sure), Aimpoint is from Sweden, there is an ELCAN RDS that is made in Canada, and otherwise it's pretty much all from east Asian countries.

 

[dirtymike1]

Wow when I left Thursday I thought this thread was just going ot have died and that was it. Thanks for the answers and opinions everyone!

All said and done, I really think I'm gonig to go with the Kobra, at least for now. I may just pick up an extra side mount with Weaver rail and get the Sparc a little later down the road just to see which one I like more. As for the Ultimak, I don't like the look of a gastube mounted rail. Not to say I won't try it out when I can afford it plus the Aimpoint. But for now, being a broke kid of a budget I think it's the Kobra that I'm going to get. I'm building my Saiga to look as close to am AKM as I can so I want the true Russian look, at least for now.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I haven't heard of this happening on the AA-battery Kobras with the switch on the left side (like MTMilitiaman's upthread), though.

My bro had a Weaver mount version and was considering mounting on his SAW when he was deployed, but it did the same thing yours (power selector broke off). My AA version has been solid. My only real performance related complaint is that, for whatever reason, I ran out of windage adjustment before I was ever able to get it fully dialed in. I don't know if the mounting rail on the rifle was installed improperly, if the receiver is torqued, or what. I can still put them in a softball sized group easily, the group is just 3 MOA to the right...