Lady in OK shot intruder while on w/ dispatch

[Snakum]

Just saw the CNN story. Lady is on phone praying she doesn't have to shoot the guy but explains he's trying to break in her patio door and yelling like a mad man. She's begging them to hurry. You hear a pop and she's like "Oh my God ... I just shot him. Please God ... etc."

Poor woman was scared to death and trying to do the right thing, and was as sorry and horrified as any person I've ever heard after she defended herself. The Prosecutor, of course, is "investigating it as a homicide" - which is, I assume SOP. I'm sure she'll walk. And she should. Sad stuff. Very heartbreaking.

 

[kda]

A medal for the lady ! Hope she doesn't beat herself up too much.

 

[Werewolf]

I doubt she'll even get charged... I can't think of a single instance in OK where the legal occupant of a home has been charged for killing an intruder who entered illegaly unless it was later determined that it was a setup and I can think of only one instance of that.

IMO unless there's strong evidence that the lady set the guy up the DA would get run out of town on a rail if he charges her with anything stronger than the illegal disposal of trash.

 

[Cincy]

Here is the audio of the 911 call. It took the police 23 minutes to get there!

http://newsok.com/woman-shoots-and-kills-intruder-in-lincoln-county/article/3422498?custom_click=rss

When seconds count, the police are only 23 minutes away!

 

[cbrgator]

The Prosecutor, of course, is "investigating it as a homicide" - which is, I assume SOP.

Correct. The DA's office, or SA's office, whatever it's called there, has to launch a preliminary investigation into every homicide. It can't just be dismissed on it's face because everything seemed fine. They'll do a quick investigation, make sure nothing is shady, and give the poor woman a thumbs up.

This isn't the type of thing the Brady Bunch wants people to see. They'd advocate she waited those 23 minutes for the police and hoped it took the guy a half hour to break in, or maybe hit him with a frying pan.

 

[JoeSlomo]

Poor lady. Glad she's O.K., well, as good as can be considering the circumstances.

 

[ozarkgunner]

You said OK, not Los Angeles? 23 minutes is terrible. The woman did right. Thank God there weren't more than one intruders, or she might be charged with an act of terrorism or something.
This is the reason LEO get a bad rap. And they wonder why. Unless she was 50 miles down some back country road. Even then, it's a terrible response time.
I live just outside city limits, less than a 1/4 mile, with a county sheriff down the street, and a city cop around the corner. If it takes more than a few minutes, LE may as well not bother showing up to take a statement or even think about looking into the situation. They better just come pick up the mess I leave out on the street. And let them talk to the news about response times.
I've delt with response times before, in Los Angeles. 2 hours for police to show up after a gang shoot out was called in, and could be heard over the phone. For any LEO's on this board, sorry, but ***?????

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The DA's office, or SA's office, whatever it's called there, has to launch a preliminary investigation into every homicide.

But isn't that circular logic? A "homocide", by definition, is the UNjustified taking of a human life. So you cannot determine whether it's a homocide until you investigate, and you cannot determine whether you need to investigate under that 'rule' until you know it's a homocide. Catch-22.

Did you mean to say, perhaps that "The DA's office, or SA's office, whatever it's called there, has to launch a preliminary investigation into every death by gunfire."?

 

[Straight Shooter]

But isn't that circular logic? A "homocide", by definition, is the UNjustified taking of a human life.

Actually, no. The definition of homicide is "The killing of one human being by another human"

It has no reference to whether it weas legal or not.

 

[oldman1946]

Part of the job

I have worked many of these type incidents. This reply will be lengthy.

1. The response time will depend on several things such as what the responding officers are doing, where additional officers may be coming from, traffic and other things. If there are two officers nearby and they are working an accident, robbery or whatever, they cannot drop the situation at hand to respond to another. If there is a rural area where the nearest officer may be 15 minutes away, then times are longer. If officers from another area is being called in, they may have to travel a long way or search for the address. The average response time in a mid size city is usually around 7 minutes.

2. It is normal to investigate a homicide. Likely she was carried to the police station and questioned. Measurements were made, photographs taken and a criminal history ran on the shooter. The gun used has to be ran for other crimes, ballistics and a few other things.

3. Once the investigation is completed and that may take several days, the complete report is then turned over to the District Attorney for review. If the DA sees need, he can submit it to a Grand Jury to see if there is cause to prosecute. If not, she is cleared.

4. Now her headaches begin. Her homeowners insurance will be sued by the family of the perp. Depending on the insurance company, they may cancel her coverage for firearm ownership or wrongful use.

5. Past all the above, she will go to bed at night thinking about seeing the man fall, seeing his face over and over for years to come. She will think of this incident often and it will change her life.

That being said, she did the right thing according to what I understand. It may have well be a matter of him harming her or her taking the action she felt necessary.

 

[MinnMooney]

from OP :

The Prosecutor, of course, is "investigating it as a homicide" - which is, I assume SOP.

It has to be SOP in all jurisdictions. What if the guy "trying to break in her patio door and yelling like a mad man." was her husband, lover or other person who is very well known to her? Hmmmmmmmmmmm................

Investigation is always warranted until the shooter's story checks out and passes the smell test.

 

[Werewolf]

1. The response time will depend on several things such as what the responding officers are doing, where additional officers may be coming from, traffic and other things. If there are two officers nearby and they are working an accident, robbery or whatever, they cannot drop the situation at hand to respond to another...

So what you're saying is that if a citizen't life is in danger it is more important to keep working an accident or robbery that's done and over with than respond to a situation where the cops might actually prevent a crime and save an innocent civilian's life?

I'd comment but cop bashing is not looked upon with favor here.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

The Prosecutor, of course, is "investigating it as a homicide" - which is, I assume SOP.

It probably is. Remember that homicide is merely the killing of one human being by another.

I'm sure she'll walk.

I am sure the homicide will be found to be a justifiable one. If I had my way she would be given a medal.

Lady is on phone praying she doesn't have to shoot the guy but explains he's trying to break in her patio door and yelling like a mad man. She's begging them to hurry. You hear a pop and she's like "Oh my God ... I just shot him. Please God ... etc."

A transcript of the call will show she did everything she could to avoid it, but ultimately had no choice. She did what she had to do despite her fear - the definition of courage.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Am I the only one who is stunned that her son (the cop) asked her if she had any coffee made?

Mom, I know you might have been killed and you just went through a life altering experience... But can you put on a pot of coffee for the boys?

 

[cbrgator]

Dr. Tad,

No, a homicide literally just means the killing of one human being by another. There are different types of homicides in our country, most are illegal. Murder is a form of homicide, manslaughter is another. Justifiable homicide is obviously, by definition, justifiable. There is no illegality to the word homicide in and of itself. Our society attaches meaning to other words that describe the form of the homicide and its legality. 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter, etc.

The DA investigates every instance of a person killing another and categorizes is as one of the above mentioned.

Homicide is just a combination of roots. Homo = Man. Cide = kill.
Patricide = person killing their father
Fratricide = person killing their brother
Matricide = person killing mother

Those words themselves don't describe illegal acts. Our laws make them illegal. Murder by definition is an illegal homicide. Homicide is not by definition illegal as a standalone term.

 

[rondog]

OK, her address is in the story, and on the tape she tells where they keep keys to the house "hidden" in a pipe in the front yard. Hope they reconsider the key stash now!

And I used to skydive in that town long ago.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Dang I guess you guys are right, cbrgator!

I coulda sworn it meant unjustifiable by definition; hmmpf; thanks.

 

[oldman1946]

That about sums it up. It is not the offier's fault. The shift of a LEO will consist of 8 hrs of boredom and 1 hrs of pure adrenilin rush.

Yet when on a call, the officer cannot sign out to take another and then return to complete the initial call.

I would much rather have a gun in the hand rather than a cop on the phone. Response time is slow no matter what. Cut the time to three minutes and a lot can still happen when an armed intruder is involved before arrival.

Let's assume the nearest officer is three miles away, then he wants backup in an invasion or armed confrontation or even and likely most of all, a domestic situation. The second officer may be five miles away. It takes time and not the fault of the officer.

Move the crime scene to a rural area where the nearest LEO may be 25 miles away and you can expect a half hour or more.

WE, you, the others here, myself, all need to remember that the first line of defense is the home owner.

 

[sheepdog]

Amazes me...

...how those who don't even live in a state will make statements about what's going to happen next...no civil suit will be honored...

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=69782

...about the coffee...to pull a person out of shock, give them a familiar task to do...it helps them calm down to do something normal...at least that's the way we did it when....

...homicide simply defined is one human has taken another's life...no guilt assumed or assigned.....

...for the Castle Doctrine or whatever it's called by Oklahomans to protect her...she has to be adjudged that it was a legal shooting...hence the investigation...the findings, whether by coroner or grand jury, will wrap the "no civil suit" protection around her....

 

[Blue Brick]

Wow!!

 

[Ryder]

When seconds count, the police are only 23 minutes away!

Unless they happen to be in the area anyway that is a typical response time for my area (but they don't hang around my corner of the county much thankfully). It is not that they're unresponsive, I live all the way across the country from where they are coming and my city police work from 9 to 5.

There won't be any 911 play by play recording if I have to defend my home. For one thing the badguy will likely be between me and the phone. I only have one that is not a mobile. Plus I have higher priorities like managing the situation... Not to mention I never practiced holding a phone while shooting

 

[sheepdog]

Legal definition of Homicide

http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/homicide/

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

it might surprise you how thin police coverage can get. in montgomery county md late night if a few guys get a dui to process and a couple more get calls its wasn't unusual for a cop to have to respond solo with 30 mins before he could expect backup.

 

[highorder]

Wow.

She was very calm right until the shooting. She spoke clearly and deliberately.

She knew better than to lock herself into a "little bathroom with a big shotgun" -her words.

She gave clear instructions to the arriving officers regarding her dog, entry into the home, etc.

 

[sheepdog]

If it was my Mom...

...I'd want to get there, too, but when we remember that the Supreme Court has said that police have no duty to protect us...rather that their duty is to enforce the laws and statutes of the jurisdiction that they serve, if they'd left a burglary scene before concluding the investigation, and the perp walked, or whatever else they were doing...and gone to help her...they would, and their department would be liable civilly for not doing their job and the cry would have been "favoritism because she's a cop's Mom"...and if someone'd been harmed because they didn't properly finish what they were already on...they would have been negligent...it's not right morally, but it's the way it is legally....

...yep...they need to move the key and change that phone # that was on the tape...thousands of folks will hear this before or unless they pull it...

...sounds like the LEOS did the best they could...this story just underscores the need for us and our families to be prepared and pre-trained as to what to do if trouble comes to us...and that's the value of this forum...a whole lot of information with which to make our own choices and plans...a lot of experience here to draw upon....glad the lady knew what to do....