Ladysmith vs SP101

[roscoe]

SP101 is more versatile (.357 or .38) and easier to shoot (heavier), whereas the J-frame is more concealable and lighter/more portable. Whichever is more important to you . . . they are both quality firearms.

 

[RealGun]

re the SP101 over others

I like the avalbilty of grips and 357 option

There are more grip options and especially holster options for Smith & Wessons.

My S&W 60-10 is all steel and pretty exactly on par with the Sp101. Both are 3". The 60-10 has adjustable sights. Pocket gun issues are moot, since these guns are too large and heavy for that. The 60-10 shoots far better for me than any of my four SP101 variations/calibers and is just an all around better gun.

Some of the comparisons are alloy lightweights to all steel SP101s. The lightweights make better shooters if confining ammo to 38 Special. Even the SP101 was introduced as 38 Special only. The versatility to shoot 357 Magnum is mostly in theory for many owners, who find the guns simply too small for magnums. The most powerful ammo I use is loads just above 38 +p range in 357 cases. Part of the motive is to stay subsonic to control noise from the report. Flash is reduced in the process.

 

[Richard Head]

You you're going to shoot mostly 38 special and 38 Speciual +P from your 357 then buy the Smith. If you want to shoot real 357 Magnum full power loads and lots of them then get the Ruger.

 

[RealGun]

If you want to shoot real 357 Magnum full power loads and lots of them then get the Ruger.

"Full power" 357 in a SP101 3" or less is crazy. To each his own, but I doubt many would routinely shoot full up magnums in that gun. Miy custom loads in 357 cases work just fine. The most sensible defensive ammo for these guns is Speer Short Barrel, which most definitely found a niche or was developed based on demand.

 

[RealGun]

S&W Model 60 3" all steel weighs 24.5 ounces

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Ruger SP101 3+" weighs 27.0 ounces, 2.5 ounces, about 10 % more than the S&W 60, 3".

http://ruger.com/products/sp101/specSheets/5719.html

Having both guns, I am not prepared to accept that the only slightly heavier Ruger can shoot stouter ammo with much of an improvement in shooter experience.

 

[Waveski]

I too have both the SP and the 60. In my experience there is a noticeable difference. The Ruger handles the full loads better than the Smith. More steel = better recoil management.

Now , I would be lying if I said I enjoyed discharging .357 magnum from either revolver , but if the is the round to be fired I will choose the Ruger over the Smith without hesitation.

 

[RealGun]

I too have both the SP and the 60.

There are a number of variations in the model 60. Is yours the all steel 3", most comparable to the SP101 3+"? I also have a Model 60 Pro, which is lighter, and would not compare it to an SP101 of the same barrel length.

 

[wbrco]

What ever you do, go for the 3" barrel. Makes a huge difference in sight picture and balance of the gun.

 

[eldon519]

"Full power" 357 in a SP101 3" or less is crazy.

Not only is it not crazy, it's not even that bad. Just gotta find the right grip for you. The only thing I ever shoot through mine is 158gr H110 reloads. I settled on the Badger boot grips after trying Hogues, Pachmayrs, and the stock grip as well. All four work well, but I like the geometry on the Badgers and their hand-filling quality. 158s instead of 125s also helps keep the flash down. Having also shot S&Ws, the advantage over them in the comfort department is the grip stub vs grip frame which gives you some padding if you so desire on grip options like the Pachmayr. It's not just steel pounding on the web of your hand.

All that said, I haven't seen any mention from the OP of wanting to carry this thing. If it is just for home defense and you are set on a .357 revolver, I'd probably get a 4" 686+ for the added control and 7rd capacity. The grips frame on an S&W is pretty small and easy to put some trim wooden grips on for smaller hand sizes.

 

[RealGun]

All that said, I haven't seen any mention from the OP of wanting to carry this thing. If it is just for home defense and you are set on a .357 revolver, I'd probably get a 4" 686+ for the added control and 7rd capacity. The grips frame on an S&W is pretty small and easy to put some trim wooden grips on for smaller hand sizes.

No, the OP said the gun would be used "mostly" for home defense, from which I naturally inferred a possibility of concealed carry. Trips to the range for practice or sport will be a factor regardless. What seemed the priority was smaller size and weight for an Asian couple of smaller stature.

 

[Tallball]

If it is not for concealed carry I would much prefer the 3" barrel. A longer barrel gives me a longer sight radius and improves my accuracy. To carry around I prefer the 2", for anything else I prefer 3" or longer.

For strengthening my index finger my SP101 is outstanding. If I shoot it enough times my finger will be plenty strong enough to tie a rope to and drag my pickup truck around. My only handgun to have a stiffer trigger was a Russian Nagant (the only way to shoot it in double action was to chain my big dogs to the trigger and wave meat in front of their faces). My Smiths have much lighter triggers and are not as good for exercise, though they are better for poking holes in things.

I realize I am just being a crybaby. Most Sp101's probably have a better trigger than mine. But nothing has disappointed me more except for my first wife, so I will continue to whine about them both. At least the Sp101 didn't cost me as much, and the neighbors were not all shooting it while I was at work.

 

[Richard Head]

Full power" 357 in a SP101 3" or less is crazy. To each his own, but I doubt many would routinely shoot full up magnums in that gun. Miy custom loads in 357 cases work just fine. The most sensible defensive ammo for these guns is Speer Short Barrel, which most definitely found a niche or was developed based on demand.

Are you serious? Have you ever shot full power loads in an SP101? It's not bad at all. The stock grip is excellent imo.

 

[silicosys4]

You seem pretty hung up on a few arguable points that are pretty subjective.
I'd like to respond to a few of them

My experiences with an sp101, as stated, is mostly with handloaded 158 grain jacketed rounds loaded with enough H110 to get it trucking at 1150fps average out of a 3" barrel.

1150 fps with 158 gr is a modest velocity for 357 and probably an okay choice for the SP101.

1150fps out of a 3" barrel is most decidedly not a modest velocity for a .357 magnum with 158 grain jacketed bullets. That is actually pretty close to max book loads, and meets or exceeds most full house factory ammunition of the same caliber and weight.

As stated by myself and others, recoil is smart out of an sp101, but with the hogue grips it is a brisk but not particularly painful recoil.
"probably okay"...why wouldn't they be? They are within spec and under max charge.

re the SP101 over others

There are more grip options and especially holster options for Smith & Wessons.

There are probably more grips overall being made for the Smith by more manufacturers, but the Ruger has the upper hand when it comes to actual options.
The ruger has a post grip frame, whereupon the Smith has a full grip frame. Therefore the Smith is confined to grip profiles that must accommodate the profile of the grip frame. The Ruger is much more accommodating of different profiles of grips.

Ruger


J frame Smith


You can see there is much more room to sculpt the grip into various shapes and sizes with the Ruger grip. It also puts more of the guns weight over the barrel, which adds to the improved recoil of the Ruger.

The lightweights make better shooters if confining ammo to 38 Special. Even the SP101 was introduced as 38 Special only. The versatility to shoot 357 Magnum is mostly in theory for many owners, who find the guns simply too small for magnums.

The versatility of being able to shoot .357 magnum must be of value, since the .357 magnum Ruger still enjoys brisk sales as compared to the .38 version. I am a fan of the free market, and the free market likes .357's in small revolvers. The Ruger was introduced as a 38 special because it was designed with a smaller frame window...then the free market spoke, and Ruger quickly redesigned the frame window for a longer cylinder.....and subsequently sold the snot out of the magnums as compared to the 38's
I myself fire more .357 out of mine than I do .38.

Having both guns, I am not prepared to accept that the only slightly heavier Ruger can shoot stouter ammo with much of an improvement in shooter experience.

I don't know what to tell you, There is a saying...Your mileage may vary.
In this case my experiences differ significantly from yours.

What seemed the priority was smaller size and weight for an Asian couple of smaller stature.

This is actually a mistake I see many smaller people who are inexperience make. Thinking that a smaller, lighter gun will be better....which is directly opposed to the laws of physics. Smaller and lighter means more transferred/felt recoil. Remember, this is primarily a nightstand gun. Lightest weight is not really a priority as I'm interpreting the OP.
What is a priority, is a comfortable grip and enough heft to soak up some of that recoil.
Both the Ruger and Smith are pretty much a wash in grip options, with each being offered in suitable grips to do the job...I myself am a big fan of the Hogues for either.

However, the Ruger can accommodate small hands just as easily if not easier than the Smith, and is heavier enough to noticeably diminish felt recoil, without being too heavy for comfortable carry if needed.
You said as much yourself...

It needs mass and barrel length to be controllable, especially for this person of smaller stature. What seems to be missing is empathy for what others might need or conclude.

It has nothing to do with empathy. I just don't accept that your reasoning is universally applicable and should be the default.
I've fired plenty of .357 magnum out of a few small framed steel revolvers, and don't find the experience with the sp101 to be as you describe it. As always, mileage may vary.

 

[eldon519]

No offense RealGun but you did go a bit hyperbolic saying it's "crazy". It's not a matter of manliness. I don't personally get any pain from shooting my 3". Depending on the load, I can do maybe 75-100rds before I usually get a blister on the thumbside of the web of my hand. For me the blisters are worse with the rubber grips which is partially why I use Badgers as they are less grabby. A nylon or wood Hogue would also work well. With a light glove to keep the abrasion down, I can further extend the range session. That's the reality of it for me. I wouldn't go put 300rds thru it in a single session, but it isn't some insane recoil machine either. I do have some guns that will bruise my palm after a long session, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Vernon1]

Two Words

Smith & Wesson

Enough said.

 

[RealGun]

silicosys4 -1150fps out of a 3" barrel is most decidedly not a modest velocity for a .357 magnum with 158 grain jacketed bullets. That is actually pretty close to max book loads, and meets or exceeds most full house factory ammunition of the same caliber and weight.

Fair enough, but I should note that 1150 is the starting load in Cast Bullet Handbook, and that from a 4" barrel. Seems like a quibble in that context to argue against calling it a modest load or velocity. Further argument is built on sand.

 

[RealGun]

silicosys4 - There are probably more grips overall being made for the Smith by more manufacturers, but the Ruger has the upper hand when it comes to actual options.
The ruger has a post grip frame, whereupon the Smith has a full grip frame. Therefore the Smith is confined to grip profiles that must accommodate the profile of the grip frame. The Ruger is much more accommodating of different profiles of grips.

Most grip makers don't even offer pocket style grips. I wasted money on Badgers, which for me had way too much palm swell and no real pinky engagement.

I have (4) SP101's in various cartridges and barrel lengths. I know something about sourcing grips and holsters. I also know something about how they shoot. As a serious owner I am alert to other's mention of the shooting experience with these guns and how the little brute can hurt you. I just think it should be obvious that Speer Short Barrel exists for good reasons and that the SP101 in 357 Magnum is one of the guns for which such ammo is well suited. It is also a reloaders gun for which one can make their own lighter shooting ammo in 357 cases.

 

[RealGun]

silicosys4 -The versatility of being able to shoot .357 magnum must be of value, since the .357 magnum Ruger still enjoys brisk sales as compared to the .38 version.

Isn't it true that the 38 Special is not available in the 3+" barrel?

 

[RealGun]

silicosys4 -It has nothing to do with empathy. I just don't accept that your reasoning is universally applicable and should be the default.

I guess you would rather YOUR opinion was the default.

silicosys4 - I've fired plenty of .357 magnum out of a few small framed steel revolvers, and don't find the experience with the sp101 to be as you describe it. As always, mileage may vary.

There's that lack of empathy again. From what I have read on the boards, there could be a large national club of people who choose not to shoot 357 in their SP101s or any other small gun that supposedly can shoot 357 Magnum. I think it is swell for those folks, probably big guys with big hands for the most part, that can tolerate 357 from a gun not massive enough for caliber in other's hands and who can call it a good time when shooting it for more than a few rounds.

 

[silicosys4]

Fair enough, but I should note that 1150 is the starting load in Cast Bullet Handbook, and that from a 4" barrel. Seems like a quibble in that context to argue against calling it a modest load or velocity. Further argument is built on sand.

That's all fine and good but we aren't talking about cast bullet loads out of a 4" barrel.
I have a chrony and a loading manual and I know where my loads stand as far as power. Out of a 4" barrel they do 1300fps. That is full power and the difference an inch of barrel makes.
I said I shoot them and they are overly uncomfortable.
You said they are a modest load and therefore not representative of full power loads.
You are wrong about that, they are full power, and still not particularly uncomfortable to shoot.
A correction, not a quibble.

Most grip makers don't even offer pocket style grips. I wasted money on Badgers, which for me had way too much palm swell and no real pinky engagement.

As far as I can tell the sp101 isn't being ignored by the majority of grip manufacturers...but anyways. Like I said it doesn't matter the number of companies making the grips, its the number of different grip options allowed by the design.
By plain mechanics the sp101 grip frame offers more possibilities for grip size and shape...this is unarguable.

Besides, We already established that the gun won't be pocket carried anyways, so tiny boot grips don't matter, and won't contribute to the utility of the gun as specified.
Try Hogue's....might be better for you than Badgers boot grips.

Isn't it true that the 38 Special is not available in the 3+" barrel?

I think that might have something to do with the predominance of purchasers feeling the utility of a .357 magnum isn't money wasted.

I guess you would rather YOUR opinion was the default.

What, that people decide their own capabilities rather than being told they can't do something by someone who's never met them? You betcha

There's that lack of empathy again. From what I have read on the boards, there could be a large national club of people who choose not to shoot 357 in their SP101s or any other small gun that supposedly can shoot 357 Magnum. I think it is swell for those folks, probably big guys with big hands for the most part, that can tolerate 357 from a gun not massive enough for caliber in other's hands and who can call it a good time when shooting it for more than a few rounds.

Lack of empathy? I don't think that is the case. I just don't believe the majority of sp101 users feel the way you do about magnum loads.

It seems the majority of people contributing to this thread feel differently about magnum loads in their sp101's.
"big guys with big hands"....My hands are smaller than most ladies', and I weigh in at 150lbs.
Sorry, the "sp101 is too painful for people to shoot magnum loads out of" line isn't my experience and runs directly opposed to the stated experiences of other contributors to this thread
I've shot guns that were painful with a .357 magnum. The sp101 wasn't one of them.

 

[.375]

1. Stop taking pictures of people that aren't couples.
2. Tell them you made a horrible mistake and you want to buy the guns back for the same price and they can go get new ones.
3. If they say no, let them know if they break up, you get the guns back.

 

[RealGun]

RealGun- I guess you would rather YOUR opinion was the default.

What, that people decide their own capabilities rather than being told they can't do something by someone who's never met them? You betcha

That's not the issue. You want to disallow the caution that the gun is not well suited to full power 357.

On all the rest, I double down and believe in my opinion and desire for my contribution to be valued.

SP101 grips in theory don't help. The actual grips available are few, because most grip makers only do the sandwich style grips. As a matter of fact, all but one of my SP101s wear Hogues. I am partial to the look of nice wood on two of them, but the best overall for me is the nylon Hogue with less palm swell and what feels to me like a natural fit for my smallish hands. I only use the factory style, the Altamont version, on the 32 H&R with mild recoil.

 

[eldon519]

I think the frustration is that you keep insisting your opinion is a rule and using matter of fact language when it is nothing more than an opinion, no more or less valid than mine or anybody else's in this thread. If you want your opinion respected, present it respectably. Say "full power .357 in an SP101 is uncomfortable for some shooters" which is true rather than saying "it's crazy to shoot full power loads in an SP101" which is rubbish. You say you want your opinion valued while dismissing the opinions and experiences of others in every post. I don't know why you are so emotionally invested in this topic or so concerned with having your contributions considered but it is clearly very dear to you as you are outposting anyone else in this thread by about 3:1.

Even your last post you argue that the gun is not well suited for .357. By what measure? It is built like a tank, you've got numerous shooters telling you they have no problem with it; I'd go so far as to argue it's actually best in class for a compact .357.

 

[Waveski]

I think that this thread has become a grudge match. Have not heard from the OP since Sunday.

Time to move on , in my opinion - which will probably be challenged.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The stock grips on the current SP-101 are a bit more comfortable for full power loads, but unless you're really set on the rosewood grips of a LS, that's easily changed. Both weapons are perfectly capable of handling full power mag loads, but few shooters find the small & slick stock grips on the 60LS conducive to it.

I have an SP-101 3". It's OK, but the 60 is a more refined handgun. And though weight difference is negligible between the two, the J frame 60LS is a little bit more compact, if carry is a concern. SP-101 splits the difference between a J and K frame, really.