Lama Pistol

[larryh1108]

I have the Llama in .32, .380, 9mmP Commander size, .40 S&W Commander size and .45 in the 5" Govt size. Before I shoot any new (to me) gun, I completely strip it and inspect it for burrs, rub marks, etc. The Llamas seem to have frame rails and slide rails that aren't as smooth as the more expensive pieces so I gave every Llama a frame rail and slide rail job. Also, the inside top of the slide that contacts the barrel hood seems to have been forgotten in the mfg process so some 600-800-1000 grit sandpaper on a dowel smooths out that area really nice. There also seems to be some small burrs on various parts of the friction areas and those need to be smoothed out. You polish the disconnector and trigger bow faces and do the M1911 ramp polishing and you end up with a wonderful shooter. These are my favorite range guns and they run like a top with any ammo I've used. I'd put my .45 against the $800 M1911s any day. The MecGar mags seem to function best with these guys on the large frames and the factory mags are best in the small frames. My "new" .22LR should be here any day now and I am anxiously anticipating tearing it down and giving it "the treatment" and taking it to the range.

These are nice guns that need some lovin before you take them out. Once you overcome the little inconsistencies you end up with a really nice gun at 1/3 the price of the name brands. If you like to tinker, invest the $200-$300 on a Llama and you'll be very happy you did.

 

[Mooseman]

I thought Llama went out of business. Are they still around, back from the dead, or still deceased? What kind of parts availability would the little 32 have? I've never tried a llama of any type but replacement parts would be a concern for me.

 

[Rockwell1]

The company has been out of business for several years.

If I had a couple hundred to blow I might buy one for historical value but I'd never bet my life on one

I think it's interesting to watch Llama owners start foaming at the mouth when ever a less than complimentary report is posted about them

 

[larryh1108]

Llama has been out of business for many years now. Parts are still out there but are getting harder to find as the years go by. The hardest parts to find are the recoil springs for the small frames. The large frames take the same springs as the M1911 series pistols. Gunbroker usually has someone selling most of the other parts. Over the years the only parts I've seen needing replaced (other than the springs) are the firing pins (hard to find but there) and slide locks. The grips are not compatible with the M1911 parts but they are out there. The other guy was right, the plastic factory grips are some of the ugliest grips I've ever seen. The older wood factory grips are quite nice, though, but hard to come by. The aftermarket grips are fine but the selection is limited. Unless you make a habit of losing parts or putting 10,000 rounds thru your gun every few years you should be fine. As far as the recoil springs go, I am looking for an alternative spring that can be easily modified. There has to be one out there that will work. I'll find it!

 

[larryh1108]

I think it's interesting to watch Llama owners start foaming at the mouth when ever a less than complimentary report is posted about them

Yeah, true! You never see that with Kimber owners, Glock owners or any other gun owner out there when one of theirs is spoken badly about!

 

[Mad Magyar]

Yeah, true! You never see that with Kimber owners, Glock owners or any other gun owner out there when one of theirs is spoken badly about

So true....

 

[exdetsgt]

You do have a point. Ugly, yes. But it might possible to pretty them up? If Tung Oil doesn't provide some lustre, maybe I'll just strip them and try something like a rosewood stain.

 

[JR47]

Yeah, true! You never see that with Kimber owners, Glock owners or any other gun owner out there when one of theirs is spoken badly about.

So true....

But, but, that's Different!!!!

 

[Roccobro]

Thanks to you guys, I pulled out my fathers "llama especial" in .22. Had trouble going FA and doubling. Hadn't touched it in about 8 years.

Quick crash course slide show (courtesy of THR) on how the springs are supposed to work on assembly and it now function tests fine. Woohoo! Range test in one week.

Justin

 

[exdetsgt]

Got the Llama 380 back from the old gunsmith in Hereford, AZ. The feed ramp gleams, racking the slide feels slick, and he realigned the lips on the original magazine. Although bigger and heavier than my Ruger LCP, it's quite a slim pistol and conceals easily in an IWB. If the rain ever stops (am I really in the desert?) I'll take it out tomorrow. If it turns out to be reliable I'll liven up the grips and start carrying it now and then.

Oh, does any one know how to determine year of manufacture from the serial number?
Mine is #143105.

 

[larryh1108]

The year code is located near the left trigger guard. It is a LETTER*NUMBER like P*2, N*1, etc. Then look it up on this year chart:

http://www.9mmlargo.com/year_codes.htm

 

[exdetsgt]

Wow, mine just has a "U" with no number following, so, according to the chart it was made in 1950! And thanks, larryh1108 for the link.

 

[exdetsgt]

Just got back from the range. Runs perfectly. Put 50 rounds through it. No hiccups. Am going to order new springs from Wolff Springs. Amazed that they had them in stock. Now if I can find someone who makes a holster for it... Tried Bianchi and Galco. Zip, nein, nada. Anyone have any holster ideas, let me know.

How accurate is it? I remember thinking that I'd settle for 4" groupings at 15 yards, and that's what I got. Certainly no range/target pistol, but good enough for social work. A better shooter might get a tighter grouping

So, I've got a 59 year old Llama Especial .32 ACP that runs well and, at least at the range, is quite a curiosity. Other shooters take a look. Comments range from, "What the heck is that?" to "Oh my, it's so cute!" (this last from a woman who regularly burns up the range with a full-size 1911).

 

[61chalk]

Thanks larryh1108....I contacted everyone about finding what year mine was but no records for the serial numbers...the number looked like R*2...1999....problem...I bought it used in 1993...?...I looked closer an it looks like B*2..1982....I think the bottom of the B didn't qet all the way stamped or a little worn. By the way it shoots better than those Glocks an Kimbers......Ha!!!!!

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I don't understand the principle that anything posted older than 90 days is invalid and should be eliminated from the forum...... duh. People google to find information.

I am a Govt 45 gunsmith.
Llama facts are that they are no better nor no worse than standard US GI issue guns. All older guns need spring changes and mag upgrades. I have had many older guns and with simple maintenance, barrel links, polish ramp, and springs they are as reliable as any. One I sold now has over 10,000 rounds through it, 1,000+ of hollowpoints, without any FTF or FTE. zero

I am not sure why some people expect to grab an old chunk of metal and expect it to be CCW ready. Be realistic. Test fire it and then get someone who knows what he is doing to tune it.

32 and 380 Llamas need basicly the same care and tuning.

All can be as reliable as anything on the market, if you are willing to pay for a GOOD GUNSMITH.

As far as "wearing out", how many have ever shot enough to wear out any 1911 type?

Triple K mags work on the 380, but might need a little feed lip shortening. Chip McCormick for the 45.

 

[exdetsgt]

Gordon, I like Chip McCormick mags, and have used them in steel frame 1911's, but I was told not to use them in my aluminum frame Kimber Ultra Carry II because the follower might scratch the ramp. Any truth to that?

 

[Mad Magyar]

Llama facts are that they are no better nor no worse than standard US GI issue guns. All older guns need spring changes and mag upgrades. I have had many older guns and with simple maintenance, barrel links, polish ramp, and springs they are as reliable as any. One I sold now has over 10,000 rounds through it, 1,000+ of hollowpoints, without any FTF or FTE. zero

Gordon, good points...I wish you were around a few years back when Llama bashing was rampant with few defenders & many unwilling to admit that they owned one....

 

[larryh1108]

Gordon, good points...I wish you were around a few years back when Llama bashing was rampant with few defenders & many unwilling to admit that they owned one....

Nooooooooo, we need to keep this a secret!! That keeps the prices down! I can get a beautiful Llama for ~$300! Why pay ~$500 for the same gun! Let the snobs turn up their noses at these beautiful guns while we enjoy the heck out of them at ridiculously low prices. i don't think that a well tuned Llama has any higher incidence of breakage or misfeeds than most of the mass produced 1911s out there. Of course, someone who paid $800 will never admit a failure to feed or a broken whatever. I mean, that's just not possible!

 

[Roccobro]

Gordon- Any chance you'd be willing to inspect and repair my fathers old .22 Llama? Looks like a spring issue, and a project that is over my head to "learn" on.

Yes, range update is gun still doesn't work as it should.

Justin

 

[larryh1108]

If Gordon is too busy to work on it I also work on Llamas. I have a "tune up" and parts inspection where you send me every part except the frame. I inspect, recondition and/or replace worn parts and polish key areas for maximum smooth action. If interested please send me a note or email me at [email protected] I try to keep the cost under $100 since llamas are inexpensive to start with.

 

[clemsontaco]

My very first and current pistol is a Llama .380 Micromax and I love the darn thing. It's a nickel Ecuadorian Air Force Edition that I paid $275 at a gun show for without knowing anything about it, but I got really lucky. As far as anyone wanting to buy a Llama I shy them away from it to keep the prices down for guys like us who already know how awesome they can be.

I hate when people bash them though because they bought a gun without using common sense and regretting it. I can't count how many threads I've read through where people say that overall quality was poor, the slide was loose, and the gun felt cheap in their hand. Well why the heck did you buy the thing then? When I first looked at my gun I did what I always do with a gun I'm inspecting with intention to buy. Whether it's a pistol or long gun I rack the action, check the barrel, and look at overall fit and finish. If something isn't right I don't buy it it's that simple. I don't pick up a gun with a sloppy slide and think "this could possibly work out all right."

What I've found is that the newer Llama's (1997-2005) are great guns for the most part. I've seen some bad examples but I honestly think that had more to do with ownership and care than manufacturing. My .380 was made in '01 and it's honestly one of the better fitted guns I've seen, especially to be used.

When I first got I read some threads that night and thought I might have really messed up. Then I went to the range and put 50 rounds through it with 3 or 4 FTE's and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 15 yards (I know that's a little far for a .380 pistol to be expected to be accurate). So I just kept my fingers crossed things would get better. A few weekends later my mom and I (that's right my mom) took a concealed carry class and I learned a lot about grip technique and recoil control. We put 100 rounds through our guns that day. I had 0, that's ZERO, FTF or FTE. My previous FTE's were due to me limp wristing the gun (I'm such a panzy apparently My group size ranged from about 2.5" at 3 feet to about 4.5" at 30 feet. I immediately fell in love with this gun. Of all the long guns I own and my Llama, the Llama is the one I would not sell. As soon as my concealed weapons permit arrives it'll be what I carry all the time.

So if you're looking at one just use common sense on what looks good and what looks like you should run the other direction. A good rule of thumb is that if there isn't a rib on the slide it's probably a decent version of a Llama, all others proceed with caution and like I said inspect closely. Sorry for the long post, but I love the gun so much I have to talk about it. Be safe and have fun out there.

 

[Rex B]

clemsontaco is right on the money. My rule on the small-frame llamas is "No slide rib".
This means anything 1950 and prior, and anything after about 2001.

I have 4 pri-1950 .380s, and one from about 1980 (rib milled off!.
A .22LR from the mid-1960s.
Also a Max-1 in .45 ACO, and a MiniMax 45
The early .380s are lifetime keepers.

I'd love to find a pre-1950 .32 ACP or .22LR

 

[MachIVshooter]

I had two Max-1 .45's that always ran very well. I also had a Micro-max .380 that wore the slide stop down very quickly.

The only Llama I have now is an old III-a .380, and it's a good little gun. Except for the external extractor, it is a 3/4 scale copy of the M1911. The newer micro-max's are blowback and not of the same quality.