LaPierre asked to resign

[GEM]

I fail to see why a personnel change for the NRA is abandoning the NRA. Certainly, we don't abandon the USA when we vote a personnel change in the presidency. We don't tolerate an executive VP who actually runs the country and can't be removed by the members of the USA in a fair election.

About the bump ban, the major point is that Trump could have simply said that it should be dealt with by the Congress. Unless there was a moral panic, the issue would have languished there.

The precedent that his type of action could and would be used against MSSAs or for other antigun measures was pointed out by Pelosi and pledged by Harris.

Saying that someone who thinks NRA personnel changes are needed will also have to vote for an antigun candidate has no logical sense.

The person is NOT the organization, can folks realize that?

 

[Styx]

I did not realize until after the BATF change it’s ruling on Bump-Fire Stocks how many Americans own them. I considered them to be a niche item owned by a small segment of shooters. It appears that both President Trump and myself made the same faulty assumption. Given how popular AR’s I failed to realize how many AR shooters own Bump-Fire stocks.

I am extremely pro-2A and against almost all gun restrictions but the reality is we as gun owners were going to take a hit on the greatest mass shooting in our Countries history. The President may have figured it was best to cut our loses with the ban and get the issue off of the table so it can not be used against Republicans in the upcoming elections. In this respect he was successful.

The NRA is catching a lot of flak for not coming out stronger against a Bump-Fire ban. I personally think they made the right decision as three Gun Control bills have passed the House and are currently tied up in the Senate. There are a lot of attacks across the county against Gun Rights and the NRA, GOA and other groups must pick their fights carefully. We can already see the drain on the GOA’s finances as a result of their lawsuit.

The NRA is having difficulties and is under a well funded and organized attacks.

So you and other former Bump-Fire stock owners will have to decide whether it is in your best interests to abandon the NRA and to vote for one of the other candidates for President. That is only a deeply personal secret decision you can make.

What do you want to sacrifice on behalf of other gun owners atfer the next shooting? And the one after that?

 

[hps1]

Interesting to see who are the Liberals on this forum and anti NRA. People looking for every excuse to disparage the one organization that are in fights every single day in everysingle state to protect the 2nd amendment rights. Yes, we all would love to see the NRA just promote safety and family outing etc. But that is not the real world. The Real world is Bloomberg and ILK. The real world is the fact that the NRA is huge organization and like any will have some bad apples, it is part of nature. Yes, you weed these out just like you weed out your own garden.
There are some folks on this very forum that want to own and enjoy this fine sport, want to protect their families and enjoy all the rights of the 2nd Amendments. But like the liberals they are, they want someone else to do their dirty work, someone else to do the fighting and they try and shoot down the ones that do. They feel some entitlement in all areas of life. I support the NRA and if you do not, or not ready to fight, and support, then just get the hell out of the way.

^^^^^^^Amen!^^^^^^^
As Paul Harvey used to say, "It takes more to pull the wagon than can ride on it." Imagine what NRA could do with twice their 5.5 million members.

Want to see what NRA is doing to protect OUR 2A rights?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ation-only-no-comments-replies-please.849343/

See anything which might affect you that you can get behind and help push the wagon? If not, check back tomorrow.....sooner or later you will.

Regads,
hps

 

[Jeb Stuart]

^^^^^^^Amen!^^^^^^^
As Paul Harvey used to say, "It takes more to pull the wagon than can ride on it." Imagine what NRA could do with twice their 5.5 million members.

Want to see what NRA is doing to protect OUR 2A rights?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ation-only-no-comments-replies-please.849343/

See anything which might affect you that you can get behind and help push the wagon? If not, check back tomorrow.....sooner or later you will.

Regads,
hps

Great Post hps1, Maybe some folks need to take this Sunday and give thanks for what the NRA has done. Like I said, our rights would be lost in 6 months without them. I hope others do take time to actually spend a hour of just reading and learning.
Bravo for the post!!

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Interesting to see who are the Liberals on this forum and anti NRA.

Hold on a minute. Anti-NRA does not equal liberal, neither does it equal anti-2nd amendment. It appears to me that most people who are anti-NRA take that stance they because they feel the NRA hasn't been pro 2nd amendment enough when compared to similar organizations, such as GOA and 2nd Amend. Foundation, or perhaps they feel the NRA has been too callous, nonchalant, or downright dismissive of mass school shooting.

 

[LiveLife]

Conservative and liberal are labels and should be avoided. There are a lot of independent voters on this forum who are rec shooters and hunters.

+1.

I believe using pro-gun/2A and anti-gun/2A is better as there are many and growing number of Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Independents/Women/Minorities who are gun owners and supporters of 2A.

Over the recent decades, faces of NRA members have shifted from primarily hunters/sports/recreational shooters. The new faces of NRA (probably the fastest growing segment of members) are likely those who became gun owners for self defense/protection and may never hunt or shoot matches. For many in this segment, fight for gun ownership is not a partisan issue rather personal rights issue.

To win the war against the anti-gun/2A crowd, NRA (the most powerful gun organization) MUST welcome and effectively represent new faces of NRA while reaching out to children/younger generation to become gun owners. We NEED NRA leadership who can accomplish this and many members have doubts/concerns with current leadership.

Bump-Fire Stocks ... I considered them to be a niche item owned by a small segment of shooters. It appears that both President Trump and myself made the same faulty assumption ... The NRA is catching a lot of flak for not coming out stronger against a Bump-Fire ban.

While I have been a supporter of NRA and conservative all of my life, I disagree with NRA's support for bump stock ban and was dismayed to see NRA's justification - https://home.nra.org/joint-statement

"Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."

NRA leadership needs to wake up and smell the coffee. While many members may not have owned bump stocks, members who owned bump stocks most likely felt NRA did not represent them and other members who did not own bump stocks (like me), shared the sentiment. Attack on any part of gun owners as a collective is an attack on the whole of gun owners and I fully expected NRA to fight the bump stock ban. For me, NRA's decision to support bump stock ban is a secondary symptom that something is wrong with the leadership at the top.

If NRA is willing to support slow erosion of gun rights/2A, then perhaps we do need change of leadership at NRA. Who knows, maybe that's what Oliver North tried to do. NRA leadership/board of directors should pause and reassess the mission of NRA and what their members expect NRA to do moving forward or they risk losing donations and membership.

Let me repeat that NRA is the most powerful gun organization and have done some great work in the past and gun owners need the NRA. But to be more effective in fighting the war against the anti-gun/2A crowd, we must be on the same page.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

And if they just focus on "gun stuff" who will do the fighting in the Courts?

You make it sound like the NRA is doing the fighting in the courts.

Let's see here...bump stock ban? NRA signed off on that, GOA fought it in the courts. As I understand it, the NRA hasn't been terribly active in the courts lately.

 

[LiveLife]

As I understand it, the NRA hasn't been terribly active in the courts lately.

But I am sure they worked on the list of federal courts/SCOTUS judges to be nominated by President Trump.

Keep in mind, like the D-Day invasion by the allies of WWII, coalition of gun rights supporters are human too and will make human mistakes. We will experience bumps along our fight for gun rights/2A but must stay focused on our primary objective to win the war against the anti-gun crowd.

Am I disappointed at NRA and Trump for supporting the bump stock ban? Sure I am, but I won't stop cheering them on to continue their good work they are doing to keep fighting the anti-gun/2A crowd and I will do my part to keep voting for pro-gun/2A law makers.

The push back from members on bump stock may influence NRA/Trump to support binary triggers. Gun technology evolves and I am sure most support progression from smooth bore barrels to rifled barrels to improve accuracy.

 

[deadin]

The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."

"Subject to additional regulations" does not equate to "total ban". Grandfathered would have made more sense.
In a way this what can happen when someone takes a "no compromise" stand. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Same with guns. Conservatives cannot imagine their own children being attacked in their elementary school. Liberals see the possibility quite clearly.

You are extremely wrong on this. I'll leave it at that.

 

[LiveLife]

"Subject to additional regulations" does not equate to "total ban". Grandfathered would have made more sense.

To us Californians, "regulation" means slow/eventual ban.

And "grandfathered" means ban at death of gun owners.

NRA supporting erosion to gun rights/2A will not win our war against the anti-gun/2A crowd.

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Well, anti-gun/2A crowd has been winning for decades and I am tired of losing and have reached the "enough is enough" point.

Judge Benitez's recent ruling and judgement gave California gun owners and citizens of 9th Circuit states and territory a bright light of hope that anti-gun/2A laws can be overturned.

I say it's time gun rights/2A supporters start winning and anti-gun/2A crowd start losing.

With President Trump increasingly nominating pro-gun/2A judges to federal district/circuit courts and the SCOTUS, we could be winning for decades in courts.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Hold on a minute. Anti-NRA does not equal liberal, neither does it equal anti-2nd amendment. It appears to me that most people who are anti-NRA take that stance they because they feel the NRA hasn't been pro 2nd amendment enough when compared to similar organizations, such as GOA and 2nd Amend. Foundation, or perhaps they feel the NRA has been too callous, nonchalant, or downright dismissive of mass school shooting.

What many people feel? Yep, there are many that feel all kinds of things. And then there are people, groups and Organzations that actually do something. And face it, No matter what the NRA does, there will be the one's who just want to bring it down, condem them in every way. Just like our President. Some talk the Talk, others walk. You obviously have your feeling. And you and I know there is nothing that will ever change them. I do not know who you support or what better organization is doing the fighting for you and me. And you seem to have a better solution. Get pro Active and start your own organization.
I honestly do not understand this constant ranting against the NRA. Just do not see how it helps anyone but the Liberal Agenda to remove the 2nd amendment rights.

And something tells me, you will try and tear this down as well. Go head. Be my guest.

https://www.nraschoolshield.org/

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Then they need to go.

NRA members have been saying that for years now. Was it last year's or the year prior's annual meeting that someone tried to undo LaPierre?

 

[D.B. Cooper]

And something tells me, you will try and tear this down as well. Go head. Be my guest.

https://www.nraschoolshield.org/]

Nope. Not at all.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I find it so amusing that some folks care more abou

Nope. Not at all.

Why not? Seems out of character for you to not want to. I actually posted this to rebut your last statement. That is why I did this so you could actually see and hopefully read what the NRA is doing for School Safety.

Your quote "
"It appears to me that most people who are anti-NRA take that stance they because they feel the NRA hasn't been pro 2nd amendment enough when compared to similar organizations, such as GOA and 2nd Amend. Foundation, or perhaps they feel the NRA has been too callous, nonchalant, or downright dismissive of mass school shooting"

So please tell me what people? .

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The President may have figured it was best to cut our loses with the ban and get the issue off of the table so it can not be used against Republicans in the upcoming elections. In this respect he was successful.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

And that is EXACTLY why I'm against the NRA!!!!!

What happens when the NRA and their politicians abandon YOU and abandon the type of guns YOU own out of political expediency?

the NRA, GOA and other groups must pick their fights carefully.

I've been hearing that phrase (pick your battles) for years on a litany of topics and issues; the problem is that they never, actually, pick a battle.

And for the record, I do not, nor never have (and now never will) own a bump stock. I don't know anyone who does or did own one. I've never seen one at a range. I had never heard of them until the Vegas shooting. The problem with the bump stock issue was the way the NRA abandoned those NRA members and citizens (no, wait, not only abandoned but aided and abetted the anti 2A community) and with the very dangerous precedent that was set by allowing ATF policy to become law without an act of Congress.

Just wait until ATF administratively redefines your firearm into an NFA category or worse and the NRA decides, once again, to not pick that battle.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Why not?

Why would I object to anything that might improve school security?

 

[LRDGCO]

There are serious mismanagement and malfeasance issues with the leadership of the NRA. It is fairly clear that some of those in leadership positions have been using the organization as a means of self-enrichment and that there have been highly irregular expenditures. Add to this a widely expressed view that the organization has been lead away from its focus on gun rights, marksmanship, and gun safety, into a wide array of advocacy on behalf of other unrelated social conservative issues, and it is clear that there needs to be a house cleaning.

The NRA needs to protect and promote gun ownership, marksmanship, and safety for all Americans. I do not want to socialize with or discuss politics with gay, communist activists. But I do want them to own guns, safely operate them, and have a regard for the Second Amendment Rights that allow them to keep and bear arms. I want outraged feminists in silly vagina hats that hate the President to be members of the NRA and advocates for our right to keep and bear arms. That’s a tall order. But it will never, ever happen with the current leadership of the NRA who have effectively turned a gun rights, gun safety, and marksmanship organization into an adjunct of one of the political parties and a platform for self-enrichment.

There needs to be a purge. And new leadership needs to return the NRA to its core mission.

 

[hps1]

+1.

I believe using pro-gun/2A and anti-gun/2A is better as there are many and growing number of Democrats/Liberals/Progressives/Independents/Women/Minorities who are gun owners and supporters of 2A.

Personally, I believe too much attention is being paid to labels and not so much to the problem at hand. Simply put, if we look at the voting records of most elected liberal representatives will reveal that very nearly 100 % tend to vote as an anti-gun block while the opposite is true of conservative elected reps. These are the simple facts behind NRA's shift to supporting conservative candidates.

Thus the rift between those whose political loyalty is greater than their love of their 2A freedoms and those who value the 2A over political labels. This rift is the Achilles' heel which is the objective of folks like Bloomberg and other anti-gun folks and organizations and which we must avoid if we are to be successful in preserving the 2A.

Over the recent decades, faces of NRA members have shifted from primarily hunters/sports/recreational shooters. The new faces of NRA (probably the fastest growing segment of members) are likely those who became gun owners for self defense/protection and may never hunt or shoot matches. For many in this segment, fight for gun ownership is not a partisan issue rather personal rights issue.

I've been an NRA member since 1952, life member since 1961 and my wife and I have been benefactor members for probably 2 decades. 25 plus years in NRA high power rifle competition, NRA rifle & pistol instructor, chaired our county Friends of NRA committee for 6 years and active committee member for 15 years and supported the NRA-ILA with what donations I have been able to. This is not to blow my own horn, just to illlustrate that you might say I'm all in when it comes to supporting NRA and have personally witnessed the shift mentioned above.

It is my humble opinion that NRA still supports firearms safety, marksmanship training, hunting, etc. but has been forced to divide it's attention/assets between those objectives and defending the 2A.

When I first joined NRA 67 years ago, we were engaged in fighting for the 2A and that fight has never been so threatening as it is today. The opposition is better financed, better organized and more determined than it has ever been in their efforts to divide and conquer.

You make it sound like the NRA is doing the fighting in the courts.

Let's see here...bump stock ban? NRA signed off on that, GOA fought it in the courts. As I understand it, the NRA hasn't been terribly active in the courts lately.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ation-only-no-comments-replies-please.849343/

Regards,
hps

 

[Casefull]

I challenge anyone on this forum to explain to me how gun rights are not a political belief. How about the tradition of a federal law going back over 200 years. Almost everything that people disagree on becomes political. This formum is a microcosm of our country in that a minority leads the majority around with a ring in their nose constantly threatening to raise hell if they don't get their way. We literally do not have free speech, as any topic that becomes too close to reality gets censored either here or on social media. I don't have any suggestions on how to change it but it definitely saddens me.

 

[Old Dog]

Same with guns. Conservatives cannot imagine their own children being attacked in their elementary school. Liberals see the possibility quite clearly.

This one certainly caught my eye. Say what? Of course, this must be why conservatives can support the concept of firearms education in the public schools, the concept of arming teachers and school staff, practices that might actually give some a chance in an active shooter situation... while liberals believe banning AR-15s and restricting law-abiding gun-owners' rights will prevent school shootings.

GEM sneaks in the most reasoned post in the thread:

The person is NOT the organization, can folks realize that?

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Why would I object to anything that might improve school security?

I do not believe you are objecting to school safety, but did use use the liberal belief that NRA is callous etc against the school shooting rhetoric as a tool to bring down the NRA when you made your original comment. I have a feeling you made the statement without actually knowing what the NRA actually does for School Safety. I have talked to many Liberals and asked them what they thought about School Shield. Not one, and I mean not one even had heard about it. And of course prior to asking them about sheild, they had made the comments like you did that they felt the NRA was so callous toward the shooting, which is total BS.
Regardless if the people that are now on the band wagon against the NRA or Conservative or Liberal, they are voicing the same rhetoric as the far Left.But have the same goal, bring down the NRA. Disparage it at every opportunity, and for any reason. I do not think Wayne Laparre is the object. Just a excuse to use to justify their political beliefs. if Wayne, was gone, they would just latch onto something else.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I am waiting to see what falls out of all this. I pulled back when they supported the bump Stock ban.

 

[AlexanderA]

But I am sure they [the NRA] worked on the list of federal courts/SCOTUS judges to be nominated by President Trump.

I doubt it. Trump's list of judges to be nominated to the SCOTUS and other federal courts comes straight from the Federalist Society. (You might say that judicial selection has been subcontracted to them.) While gun rights are included in the Federalist Society's list of issues, it's low in the order of priority. The core of the Federalist Society's agenda is to reduce government regulation of business. They see "originalism" as a way to do this.

 

[LiveLife]

This formum is a microcosm of our country in that a minority leads the majority around with a ring in their nose constantly threatening to raise hell if they don't get their way.

More like citizens of Constitutional Republic where majority's will being imposed on the minority's rights for decades being challenged. And that's why founding fathers chose Constitutional Republic over Democracy as the form of government.

What gun owners are doing is exercising their constitutional right, not throwing temper tantrum.

NRA exists to represent gun owners and must work to protect gun owners' rights. IMO, supporting ANY erosion to 2A is not doing that.