Laser sights on my snubby revolver have made me more likely to carry it

[Dr_2_B]

For me personally, the biggest shortcoming (pardon the pun) of my S&W 442 revolver is the short sight radius rendering it more difficult to make accurate hits. I believe my laser grip sight makes it more likely I could hit a target at 30 feet than would be possible with the open sights.

Anyone else have this idea?

[I posted this in the General Discussion forum in order to get the views of people other than revolver-guys.]

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Sounds like a band aid to attempt to fix a problem that needs to be solved with more range time.

 

[browningguy]

Personally I like lasers, particularly for low light shooting and for short barrel pistols and revolvers. But you still need to put the range time in.

 

[guido4198]

Speaking as someone who has been an active handgun shooter in a wide variety of competitions over a 40 yr stretch...it is my humble opinion that relying on a laser may very well get you killed. If that upsets some folks, I would ask that you re-read my opening (qualifying) statement. I'm one of those people who shoot a lot. One of those people who has made it a point over many years to hone certain defensive skills with range time and ammunition.
Despite the lure of lasers on defensive handguns I believe that in a moment of extreme stress...up close and personal...if you train to look for the red dot...you are giving a "time edge" to the bad guy.
As already pointed out, they may represent a reasonable "band-aid" for folks who can't or won't make the long term commitment required to achieve a degree of proficiency with defensive handguns, I don't know and can't comment.

 

[340PD]

I am a active shooter and I have three snubbies and every one of them are equipped with CT lasers. I believe being able to put a red dot on a aggressor may be enough to mitigate the confrontation with the need to discharge my firearm, not to mention the lasers benefit of being one of the greatest dry fire training aids ever invented.

 

[Sam1911]

Yup, lasers are a terrific dry-fire training aid, if you use them carefully.

As a gun-fighting tool, I think they lead people to bad habits and poor tactics. I've watched way too many shooters peering OVER their sights to "follow the bouncing ball" and that kind of shooting is FAR too slow to be effective in a violent encounter.

But it's a training issue. If you're practicing to shoot bulls-eyes at 20 yards (or whatever distance) and the laser helps you print better groups, it makes you feel that you're more accomplished with the gun and more likely to prevail in a gunfight. In reality, putting a glowing red dot on a moving threat -- NEEDING to see that glowing red dot on your target -- is a terrible trap to let yourself fall into, from a defensive shooting standpoint.

I believe being able to put a red dot on a aggressor may be enough to mitigate the confrontation with the need to discharge my firearm

Because when YOU see the dot, HE'll be scared into stopping his attack? Not many people spend their time peering at their chests to see if a red dot has magically appeared there. Unless you're pointing it at their eyes, or you're putting on a laser show in a smoke-filled room, they aren't likely to notice while they're attacking you. I and a companion were "painted" with a laser dot once in a dark room and my companion didn't have any idea he was being targeted until I noticed the dot on him. That thing where the bad guy looks down at the dot and freezes -- only happens in the movies.

 

[kp]

I have CT laser grips on 3 of my J frames. I think they are definitely a useful tool due to the short sight radius and poor front sights of these little revolvers. However, you must still put rounds down range and be proficient with and without it.

 

[paravil]

I'm glad guido4198 chimed in with some real-world input, as mine is only obervational/anecdotal. I'm of the opinion that lasers and night sights are largely money-making gimmicks. As others have said, more range time will make the difference, but even that's beside the point. In the heat of the moment, you aren't going to see or even think about using your sights. When I practice with my 642, I practice point and shoot, usually from the hip.

 

[Sam1911]

In the heat of the moment, you aren't going to see or even think about using your sights.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. That's a great way to hit nothing.

You'll do whatever you trained to do. If you've trained to get the gun up and obtain a sight index, you'll do that. If you've trained to find the bouncing ball, you'll attempt to do that. If you've trained to just start mashing the trigger from the hip...

To be fair, there's a good deal of value in learning to shoot from a "retention" position, out to a distance of maybe 4 yards. If your attacker is that close or closer by the time you get your gun out, all you have time to do, and all you need to do, is orient it the same direction your body's facing and get off a shot or three.

At any greater distance, you should be aiming. Depending on the distance that might mean seeing the silhouette of the gun superimposed on the attacker, or seeing the front sight, or even aligning the sights.

Or looking for the bouncing ball, but being able to put it on the target and find it fast enough is worrisome.

 

[paravil]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. That's a great way to hit nothing.

But you get my point. Self defense situations are, more often than not, point and shoot scenarios. There is rarely enough time to draw a bead on your attacker. As other commenters pointed out, you can't depend on the possibility of having the time to put a laser on someone.

If you've trained to just start mashing the trigger from the hip...

"Mash" the trigger? I'm not sure why my comment warranted your sarcastic assumptions. I guess my vocabulary wasn't precise enough. When I "train" I practice presenting the gun and firing from the hip.

Look, to each his own. If gadgets on a gun put someone's mind at ease, then so be it. For me, they're a waste of time and money.

 

[Sam1911]

I wasn't being sarcastic. Sorry if I offended.

I don't like hearing folks make the assertion that "you'll never see your sights" as it becomes a cheap and easy excuse to not practice sound defensive handgunning principles. Or to fool one's self into thinking the bad guys will always be too close to miss, or whatever.

Shooting from retention IS one very valuable technique that must be practiced, but so are all the other stages of aiming your weapon quickly.

And I agree, the laser dot -- in practice -- fits such a slim niche in realistic defensive shooting that I don't recommend wasting time with them. Lack of confidence is not good. FALSE confidence in a tool that won't help you is WORSE.

 

[pbearperry]

laser sights

The best sights in the world are useless until you master the trigger pull.

 

[Rob1109]

What kind of sights do our military and local swat teams use?

 

[paravil]

I wasn't being sarcastic. Sorry if I offended.

No problem. Didn't mean to be jumpy.

I don't like hearing folks make the assertion that "you'll never see your sights" as it becomes a cheap and easy excuse to not practice sound defensive handgunning principles. Or to fool one's self into thinking the bad guys will always be too close to miss, or whatever.

I totally agree with you on this. More what I meant was that you can't bank on having the opportunity to see or use your sights. You're right that you should train for every type of defensive shooting. And like you, I think fewer gadgets and more time practice is the way to do it.

 

[Sam1911]

What kind of sights do our military and local swat teams use?

Actually, you'd be surprised! Some DO use laser sights for certain limited tasks. When you're wearing a lot of protective gear and night-vision goggles, getting a traditional sight picture may be very difficult. A laser sight, especially an IR laser, helps them make the best of a bad situation.

Not applicable to any of us in the civilian world, of course, but good to know.

 

[Sam1911]

Didn't mean to be jumpy.

No worries! The keyboard makes us all look more argumentative and edgy than we really are. I hope!

I agree with your points entirely.