Have you seen the pictures from Big Bill with the mag bases? You really are pushing the size of a PF9 by the time you use the bigger mag bases and the slip on grip. The PF9 really isn't much bigger than the LCP and adding much at all to the LCP brings it really close in grip width and length.
LCP: Enhanced control grips?
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larryh1108
Member
Tales of the tape:
LCP: L-5.16" PF9: L-5.85"
LCP: W-.82" PF9: W-.88"
LCP: H-3.6" PF9: H-4.3"
LCP: #-9.4oz PF9: #-12.7oz
I think you have 2 guns miles apart when you get into the micro pistols. The 3oz difference alone is huge when the LCP is only 9oz to start with. They are not even close in size but I will admit you do get 9mm for a package that is pretty small. However, the LCP with a finger hook and grip sleeve is no where near a PF9 in any aspect. Apples and oranges.
LCP: L-5.16" PF9: L-5.85"
LCP: W-.82" PF9: W-.88"
LCP: H-3.6" PF9: H-4.3"
LCP: #-9.4oz PF9: #-12.7oz
I think you have 2 guns miles apart when you get into the micro pistols. The 3oz difference alone is huge when the LCP is only 9oz to start with. They are not even close in size but I will admit you do get 9mm for a package that is pretty small. However, the LCP with a finger hook and grip sleeve is no where near a PF9 in any aspect. Apples and oranges.
My point was, and is, if you add .1" to the thickness with a slip on grip pad as well as toss on .5" with a grip extension, as well as 2oz from these parts, you are practically at the same size as the PF9. The LCP will still be shorter, but other than that, it all be matches the PF9. For me, .7" in length isn't often the measure that matter much. If it is to you, then the LCP still comes out ahead. Look at your numbers, then add what these parts would add, and honestly tell me you aren't looking at basically a .380 PF9 with the fatter, taller LCP.
larryh1108
Member
I doubt the grip sleeve and finger grip add 1/2 oz total let alone 2oz. If you really wish to know I can weigh them for you but I don't have the regular mag base plate to subtract from the weight of the finger hook one (since this is the difference). The empty weight alone is 33% more in the PF9. I am not debating which would be better more than I am debating how little a grip sleeve and finger rest adds to the initial package. Both are fine guns and actually every gun mentioned here is a very nice gun. It's all up to what is important to the buyer.
76shuvlinoff
Member
I recently bought an LCP, I've been waiting since they came out to get my hands on one.
I'm used to a full size .45 and a subcompact double stack .40. It has it's place in the line-up but even with my small hands this little pistol really rocks around. I already have the pinky extension some kind of grip sleeve is my next move.
I'm used to a full size .45 and a subcompact double stack .40. It has it's place in the line-up but even with my small hands this little pistol really rocks around. I already have the pinky extension some kind of grip sleeve is my next move.
mgmorden
Member
Personally, I had (have) the same issue with my LCP. It's so small I just can't be accurate with it - and I actually have fairly small hands. I've got the aftermarket extension grip on one of the magazines (it's longer than the included Ruger extension), and it helps a little, but not much.
Personally, though I doubt I'll ever get rid of the LCP, I'm seriously looking into either a Kel-tec PF9 or a Kahr CW9 as a carry replacement. They're still small-ish, but there's just a little more to hand onto which would help me a lot. Having a tiny carry gun does me no good if I can't hit anything with it . . .
Personally, though I doubt I'll ever get rid of the LCP, I'm seriously looking into either a Kel-tec PF9 or a Kahr CW9 as a carry replacement. They're still small-ish, but there's just a little more to hand onto which would help me a lot. Having a tiny carry gun does me no good if I can't hit anything with it . . .
mgmorden:
Most self defense situations are within bad breath range and often with your weak hand holding the bg away at arms length.
Accuracy will not be an issue.
Practice point shooting, one handed, with you forearm tight against your side just above your hip.
Hold the gun as tight as a tennis racket.
Practice, drawing/shooting, moving right, moving left, lying on your back, practice, practice.
Keep a tennis ball in your car and squeeze it while driving to build hand strength.
YMMV
Most self defense situations are within bad breath range and often with your weak hand holding the bg away at arms length.
Accuracy will not be an issue.
Practice point shooting, one handed, with you forearm tight against your side just above your hip.
Hold the gun as tight as a tennis racket.
Practice, drawing/shooting, moving right, moving left, lying on your back, practice, practice.
Keep a tennis ball in your car and squeeze it while driving to build hand strength.
YMMV
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larryh1108
Member
Like he just said, the LCP is for up close and personal contact. Try a silhouette target at 10' max. All you are trying to do is hit the human target where it can cause some damage. Any shot in the main oval is considered a good shot. It's not a range gun where you get all 9 and 10 ring shots at 30'. If you understand it's purpose you'll be more than pleased when your shooting session is over.
Larryh, I was talking about the mag extensions from Big Bill's photo, not to mention you gain an extra round as well. Personally, the difference between 9oz and 12oz isn't noticeable in a pocket for me. The size is what I notice. While the percentage difference may be large, both are quite light, and to me, are both far light enough to not be a problem either way. Even then, if you add 1oz with the extra parts, I don't think I could tell you which weighed more when being carried (between 10oz and 12oz). It just isn't much no matter how big of a percentage it may be.
What I notice is size. I can't fit a taller pistol than the stock baseplate in a pocket and holster comfortable. For me, that is the issue, not 2 oz. If I am going to increase the thickness and height, I don't see a reason not to step up to 9mm. I have a purpose for my LCP, but it isn't to bulk it up, but to keep it as small as possible.
I for some reason shoot the LCP pretty well. At 7 yards I hold the 8 ring on a silhouette target in rapid fire. For me, that is perfect. But if I couldn't shoot the thing and had to lengthen and widen it, I would spend the money on a PF9 instead. I really like the LCP, but if you increase the dimensions much, you might as well be shooting 9mm as well.
What I notice is size. I can't fit a taller pistol than the stock baseplate in a pocket and holster comfortable. For me, that is the issue, not 2 oz. If I am going to increase the thickness and height, I don't see a reason not to step up to 9mm. I have a purpose for my LCP, but it isn't to bulk it up, but to keep it as small as possible.
I for some reason shoot the LCP pretty well. At 7 yards I hold the 8 ring on a silhouette target in rapid fire. For me, that is perfect. But if I couldn't shoot the thing and had to lengthen and widen it, I would spend the money on a PF9 instead. I really like the LCP, but if you increase the dimensions much, you might as well be shooting 9mm as well.
larryh1108
Member
Benzy, I agree with everything you just wrote. Excellent points.
This hits the nail on the head. Enhancing it with grip sleeves and/or finger hook (not extension) keeps the value of the LCP for it's design. That's my point. Adding bulk, weight and accessories and you do have a 9mm size gun that shoots .380. That defeats the purpose of the design.
This hits the nail on the head. Enhancing it with grip sleeves and/or finger hook (not extension) keeps the value of the LCP for it's design. That's my point. Adding bulk, weight and accessories and you do have a 9mm size gun that shoots .380. That defeats the purpose of the design.
Gun Geezer
Member
I have tried the slip on grip on several smallish 380 and 9mm guns that have been mentioned. This alone makes a huge differnce in feel and controlablity.
Skateboard tape is another option that achieves the same thing, but I think to a lessor degree. I prefer the slip on with finger grooves.
With a slip on, there is virtually no weight added. The width added to the grip area is neglibible (yes about 1/16 inch) and nothing added to height or length (obviously).
There is a very definite place for 380 mouse guns. Front pockets, rear pockets, and others that just will not hold a pf9 or even a PM9, depending on the pocket.
The slip on grip is a winner in making the gun that will work in that pocket more contollable.
Skateboard tape is another option that achieves the same thing, but I think to a lessor degree. I prefer the slip on with finger grooves.
With a slip on, there is virtually no weight added. The width added to the grip area is neglibible (yes about 1/16 inch) and nothing added to height or length (obviously).
There is a very definite place for 380 mouse guns. Front pockets, rear pockets, and others that just will not hold a pf9 or even a PM9, depending on the pocket.
The slip on grip is a winner in making the gun that will work in that pocket more contollable.
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I hav an LCP and personally do not feel that I need rubber on the grip. I did add a Handall to my Kel Tec PF-9. It helped. I would not opt fot the PF-9 over the lcp for concealability. It is longer overall and the grip angle makes the grip much higher in the pocket. I ended up selling the PF-9 and buying a Kahr PM-9 and it conceals much better in the pocket for me. Yes it is in a whole different price category. Also the 9mm offerings are thicker and heavier than the LCP. If small, light, inexpensive and concealable are what you want the LCP fits the bill. A little ruber on the grip will not change any of those attributes.
I own and carry a Ruger LCP at times and I use the factory finger extensions. They fit my hand and the grips feels locked in to my hand. I can't shoot it nearly as well without them. I fyou have a hard time with the LCP I would take a look at the Bersa 380CC. If is a bit larger but you might find it a lot easier to shoot while still being small enough to conceal easily.
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