Least expensive 1911 w/ all forged parts?
- Thread starter JellyJar
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bdb benzino
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I have heard the Sig GSR 1911 has no MIM at all and can be had for around $900!
The Norinco was my first thought too. Even at the level of high end production guns like Wilson Brown and Baer, they are using cast parts. The most obvious are the beavertail grip safeties
HisSoldier
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No one is making "All" parts forged, never have either. The pins are typically made from rod stock in a screw machine. So, we'll have to narrow it down a bit.
Most other small parts in all 1911's that aren't MIM'ed or cast are made from bar stock as well, but here are some that used to be forged. Slide, frame, barrel (Most all are turned and milled from bar now) disconnector, hammer, sear, slide stop safety, grip safety. I doubt anyone ever forged the recoil spring plug, it's a low stress part and whiz bang off the lathe, the spring guide may have been forged at one time.
DW forges all frames now I think, I'm not sure if the slides are forged or bar stock.
Consider that in the 1911 we have a singularly customizable gun, there are so many after market parts out there.
I don't know who takes the prize for the most forged parts, possibly the Norinco that we can't buy in the land of the free and the brave. I'm betting Tuner can tell though.
Most other small parts in all 1911's that aren't MIM'ed or cast are made from bar stock as well, but here are some that used to be forged. Slide, frame, barrel (Most all are turned and milled from bar now) disconnector, hammer, sear, slide stop safety, grip safety. I doubt anyone ever forged the recoil spring plug, it's a low stress part and whiz bang off the lathe, the spring guide may have been forged at one time.
DW forges all frames now I think, I'm not sure if the slides are forged or bar stock.
Consider that in the 1911 we have a singularly customizable gun, there are so many after market parts out there.
I don't know who takes the prize for the most forged parts, possibly the Norinco that we can't buy in the land of the free and the brave. I'm betting Tuner can tell though.
AKPastor
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I'm no expert on the 1911, but I would say buy one you like in the price range you like and then replace the parts you don't like.
Ditto on the Norinco 1911A1, all parts are interchangeable with a milspec Colt. It works fine out of the box, but I added a couple of extras, a full-length guide rod and recoil spring, an ambidextrous safety, and a nicer set of grips. All together, still well under $400 invested.
Even Colt 1911's use some MIM/polymer parts on them nowadays. I'm not familiar with norico's so I can't comment on them. Unless you go higher end semi/full custom pistols or build it yourself I don't think you're gonna find a all forged 1911.
Honestly forged parts don't automatically make a better pistol. I'm told forged BHP's don't hold up to high round counts as well as the later cast models. Me personally I like Colts cause they have forged slides and frames. Most guys I shoot with however like caspians with cast frames. I've yet to see a cast frame caspian fall apart or crack. YMMV.
Honestly forged parts don't automatically make a better pistol. I'm told forged BHP's don't hold up to high round counts as well as the later cast models. Me personally I like Colts cause they have forged slides and frames. Most guys I shoot with however like caspians with cast frames. I've yet to see a cast frame caspian fall apart or crack. YMMV.
schmeky
Member
Norinco.
Cast guns aren't bad if you go with a quality brand name, like STI Spartan etc, or a Remington. Example new browning hi powers now use all cast frames and are considered stronger than older forged frames, as the hardening technics used in the cast frames is superior to the method used on earlier forged frames, making the cast frames stronger.
You might want to give the springfield 1911 range officer a look, some ppl say good things about them and they sell on gun broker for $650-$700.
Also if you can find a good used colt 1911 you can't really go wrong and the gun will always retain its value.
You might want to give the springfield 1911 range officer a look, some ppl say good things about them and they sell on gun broker for $650-$700.
Also if you can find a good used colt 1911 you can't really go wrong and the gun will always retain its value.
Zerodefect
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The 2010 Dan Wesson Valor is what your after. I just bought one. No other 1911, that I've seen, has less cast parts and more forged or billet steel parts.
$1500-1800 for stainless
$1800-2100 for the Black Coated model.
I got the SS finish, because I usually trim the thumb safety until it fits my hand perfectly. Soon I'll send it out for Melonite or Hardhat, whole darn thing black.
Wilson, LesBaer, EdBrown use cast thumb safeties, slide stops usually.
DW uses a forged slide stop from some rare company that starts with "g", I forget. Really a nice part.
DW had to make thier own thumb safety from steel, because everyones thumb safety is cast except for one Wilson Safety I've seen, but I've never seen a Wilson with that thumb safety anyway.
The only significant cast part on the 2010 Valor is its EdBrown grip safety. The 2010 models have a 0 for the first # of the serial #. V0333 is a 2010 Valor. V9333 is a 2009 Valor.
Part list fo my Valor (at least the parts I have fiqured out):
-Heinie Slant Night sights. 2 Trijicon Lamps set "Straight 8" style.
-Forged Slide stop
-DW Billet Thumb safety
-EdBrown Mainspring Housing
-EdBrown Grip Safety
-EdBrown thin Mag release (I'm replacing this with a Wilson extended soon)
-Checkmate mags (nice bodies, but I'm putting a Tripp follower and spring in mine, only Tripp and Wilson mags get to touch my 1911's)
-VZ medium thingrips
-No idea on the Sear/hammer/disco, but I checked them and theyre set perfect. 4.0-4.5lb trigger. Hammer has a nice shape to it.
-Proper SS match barrel
-Thick bushing and GI recoil rod
-No slide play, 0.
Pics or it didn't happen:
$1500-1800 for stainless
$1800-2100 for the Black Coated model.
I got the SS finish, because I usually trim the thumb safety until it fits my hand perfectly. Soon I'll send it out for Melonite or Hardhat, whole darn thing black.
Wilson, LesBaer, EdBrown use cast thumb safeties, slide stops usually.
DW uses a forged slide stop from some rare company that starts with "g", I forget. Really a nice part.
DW had to make thier own thumb safety from steel, because everyones thumb safety is cast except for one Wilson Safety I've seen, but I've never seen a Wilson with that thumb safety anyway.
The only significant cast part on the 2010 Valor is its EdBrown grip safety. The 2010 models have a 0 for the first # of the serial #. V0333 is a 2010 Valor. V9333 is a 2009 Valor.
Part list fo my Valor (at least the parts I have fiqured out):
-Heinie Slant Night sights. 2 Trijicon Lamps set "Straight 8" style.
-Forged Slide stop
-DW Billet Thumb safety
-EdBrown Mainspring Housing
-EdBrown Grip Safety
-EdBrown thin Mag release (I'm replacing this with a Wilson extended soon)
-Checkmate mags (nice bodies, but I'm putting a Tripp follower and spring in mine, only Tripp and Wilson mags get to touch my 1911's)
-VZ medium thingrips
-No idea on the Sear/hammer/disco, but I checked them and theyre set perfect. 4.0-4.5lb trigger. Hammer has a nice shape to it.
-Proper SS match barrel
-Thick bushing and GI recoil rod
-No slide play, 0.
Pics or it didn't happen:
If you want all of the forged parts that went into the USGI 1911A1 pistols and Colt's matching commercial versions - including material and heat treating specifications; the lowest price you will find is a used Colt or USGI pistol.
Norinco (Chinese) parts may be forged, but they didn't necessarily meet US blueprint specifications, and some had bad barrels that caused serious headspacing issues. If you shop around you'll find Colt's that have cosmetic issues, but are otherwise solid in the $600 to $800 range, and occasionally less.
Norinco (Chinese) parts may be forged, but they didn't necessarily meet US blueprint specifications, and some had bad barrels that caused serious headspacing issues. If you shop around you'll find Colt's that have cosmetic issues, but are otherwise solid in the $600 to $800 range, and occasionally less.
piece of meat
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what does 'MIM' stand for??
Cards81fan
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Last edited:
JellyJar,
To be honest, I'm not sure I understand why you want all forged parts. There was a time -- a time a long time ago -- when "cast metal" meant "weak metal," but that's not been true for quite a while.
The truth is that some of the strongest gun actions made today (Ruger Redhawks and Super Redhawks, for instance) have always been made with cast frames, but the alloys and casting methods are nothing at all like what people think of old castings like the famously cracked Liberty Bell. And as others have also pointed out, many parts (spring rod, trigger, stirrup, grip safety, mainspring housing, on and on) would make no sense for them to be forged.
Honestly, "forged" really does not mean "better." Look for a gun that has a proven record of durability and reliability. There are many ways to accomplish that; let the engineers and metallurgists figure out how best to do it. Me, I'm not interested in telling them how to do it; I'm just interested in who comes up with the best result.
To be honest, I'm not sure I understand why you want all forged parts. There was a time -- a time a long time ago -- when "cast metal" meant "weak metal," but that's not been true for quite a while.
The truth is that some of the strongest gun actions made today (Ruger Redhawks and Super Redhawks, for instance) have always been made with cast frames, but the alloys and casting methods are nothing at all like what people think of old castings like the famously cracked Liberty Bell. And as others have also pointed out, many parts (spring rod, trigger, stirrup, grip safety, mainspring housing, on and on) would make no sense for them to be forged.
Honestly, "forged" really does not mean "better." Look for a gun that has a proven record of durability and reliability. There are many ways to accomplish that; let the engineers and metallurgists figure out how best to do it. Me, I'm not interested in telling them how to do it; I'm just interested in who comes up with the best result.
In engineering terms of strength, cast is the weakest, billet mid level and hot or cold forged is actually stronger than even billet made parts.
The theory over billet made parts is that certain areas of the metal become weak as the material is machined away.
Forging a part to close to the desired shape, helps to strengthenthe metal in these weak areas, during the forging process.
Many ppl. believe that billet metal is best, but its not always the truth.
Metal strength depends more on metal grade and method of casting or forging.
The theory over billet made parts is that certain areas of the metal become weak as the material is machined away.
Forging a part to close to the desired shape, helps to strengthenthe metal in these weak areas, during the forging process.
Many ppl. believe that billet metal is best, but its not always the truth.
Metal strength depends more on metal grade and method of casting or forging.
Last edited:
Zerodefect
member
Thankyou. Excellent slide stop. The 10-8 is similar.
Zerodefect
member
I've been cutting and grinding on my Kimber. The MIM parts I got were tremendously strong. In the end I replaced alot of the parts I modded. I won't be ragging on Kimbers/Springys/Rems use of MIM anymore. As long as it's done right.
My Kimber thumb safety actually took my longer to hack an edge off of than the EdBrown that replaced it.
(Learning the art, sometimes you got to crack a few eggs, or something)
Your not going to find cheap 1911's with the good strong parts. Even the original 1911's didn't have parts this good. It's impossible to make a good strong 1911 for under $1000.
Have to cut corners somewhere. Fitting parts is a nightmare, MIM requires allmost no fitting. Now I know why custom 1911 co.s charge so much. Building a 1911 stinks.
smith21911
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As a retired pattern maker who builds 1911s and has made patterns for hundreds of cast metal parts I must say the only spot on post mentioned Ruger guns . Forging steel is not the only way to make pistol parts. And NOT the best way to make most of them.The USMC
has guns that truly work, not shoot paper targets,made with cast parts.Cast frames made by Caspian are in use around the world without any bad rap. Millions of ruger guns prove cast gun parts work.You might have one yourself.
has guns that truly work, not shoot paper targets,made with cast parts.Cast frames made by Caspian are in use around the world without any bad rap. Millions of ruger guns prove cast gun parts work.You might have one yourself.
RON in PA
Member
The Springfield Armory GI 1911 is a very close copy of the 1911A1. The frame, slide and barrel are forged. The other parts perhaps investment casting or MIM, but if done right there is nothing wrong with such parts. The average price seems to run about $550.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
It depends on the material and the process used in making it. Good MIM can be quite good.
Bad MIM is worse than junk. Colt has apparently used good MIM since they started using it.
I've seen/heard of very few Colt MIM parts failures.
I put it to the test once with a take-out Colt MIM sear. Placing it face down on an anvil, I hit it with a hammer several times without breaking it. I then installed it in a gun, and the gun worked fine. The trigger pull left a little to be desired, but it worked.
Then, I laid it on its side so as to put the relatively thin legs under impact stress. The leg bent, but didn't fracture.
I don't know who Colt's vendor is for their MIM parts, but they've obviously got a handle on making good MIM...at least for that particular sear.
rimfireriot
Member
Back to the OP's topic:
+1 to the early suggestion for SIG 1911s
The SIG 1911 series is made with, reportedly, no MIM parts.
I've handled a few and shot 1, from my limited experience they seem excellent.
If you're going to buy used try to avoid the early productions, I think they had some early reliability issues that have been cleared up now.
The XO model has MSRP of 970.00, I'd imagine one can be found for less. I've seen then on sale for $823.00, I'm sure people have found them lower than that.
+1 to the early suggestion for SIG 1911s
The SIG 1911 series is made with, reportedly, no MIM parts.
I've handled a few and shot 1, from my limited experience they seem excellent.
If you're going to buy used try to avoid the early productions, I think they had some early reliability issues that have been cleared up now.
The XO model has MSRP of 970.00, I'd imagine one can be found for less. I've seen then on sale for $823.00, I'm sure people have found them lower than that.
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