It seems there is about a 2:1 ratio in favor of resizing new brass. Everyone pretty much agrees to chamfer and check length. Here is my question. Is it then ok to not full or partial length resize and instead just use the Lee Collet? I am not really sure I understand at this point how to set up a full length die to partial resize some am looking at an alternative.
Lee Collet Neck Sizing on New Brass
- Thread starter Vacek
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
IMO: Collet dies are way to much for a new reloader to figure out.
Too many variables to get it right.
The mandrel size has to be matched to the case neck of the particular lot of cases you have to keep from over-sizing, or under sizing and not enough neck tension.
You can just use your FL sizing die and back it off a little from where it would be adjusted for complete FL sizing. A 1/4 - 1/2 turn out should do ya!
At any rate, you should never trim new brass until it has been FL sized the first time after firing in your chamber. If you trim before that, it's anyones guess what length you will have after you shoot them in your rifle and size them again.
rc
Too many variables to get it right.
The mandrel size has to be matched to the case neck of the particular lot of cases you have to keep from over-sizing, or under sizing and not enough neck tension.
You can just use your FL sizing die and back it off a little from where it would be adjusted for complete FL sizing. A 1/4 - 1/2 turn out should do ya!
At any rate, you should never trim new brass until it has been FL sized the first time after firing in your chamber. If you trim before that, it's anyones guess what length you will have after you shoot them in your rifle and size them again.
rc
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I totally agree, wait until you shoot the brass once and re-size it before you trim...
Grumulkin
Member
Just because there is a 2:1 ratio in favor of resizing new brass doesn't mean that's the correct. If you look at history, you will find many instances of the few being right and the many wrong.
I don't size new brass.
I don't size new brass.
dagger dog
Member
The main reason behind prepping new brass is uniformity, to get all the peices the same, that way you have a known starting point instead of relying on someone elses work.
The prep could be as simple as a visual inspection, looking for dented case mouths etc., or quick measuring of the length to make sure the crimp(if used) will be in the correct spot and that it is not too long, or looking for hanging flash hole chads.
No doubt neck sizing after the first firing will extend the life of your brass, wether it will be more accurate than full length sizing is strictly a gamble, and it depends on a lot of factors, such as chamber dimensions ,barrel and crown quality and I could go on and on. The only way is to shoot and keep records.
The Lee collet die is easy enough to use , but so is backing out your full length die enough to only size just the neck, if you sart with the die just barely touching the case mouth and screw it in bit at a time you can see the ring on the brass neck as it moves down the case towards the shoulder, and you want to stop before it touches the shoulder.
If you shoot you brass first, it will conform to slightly under chamber specs, and then neck size only, the brass gets worked a whole lot less, and using either method neck sizing will retard from it "growing in length", but it won't stop it completley.
I like the collet, 'cause you don't have to lube, but as previously stated in post #2, you have to factor in neck tension "bullet grip", to get the best accuracy.
The prep could be as simple as a visual inspection, looking for dented case mouths etc., or quick measuring of the length to make sure the crimp(if used) will be in the correct spot and that it is not too long, or looking for hanging flash hole chads.
No doubt neck sizing after the first firing will extend the life of your brass, wether it will be more accurate than full length sizing is strictly a gamble, and it depends on a lot of factors, such as chamber dimensions ,barrel and crown quality and I could go on and on. The only way is to shoot and keep records.
The Lee collet die is easy enough to use , but so is backing out your full length die enough to only size just the neck, if you sart with the die just barely touching the case mouth and screw it in bit at a time you can see the ring on the brass neck as it moves down the case towards the shoulder, and you want to stop before it touches the shoulder.
If you shoot you brass first, it will conform to slightly under chamber specs, and then neck size only, the brass gets worked a whole lot less, and using either method neck sizing will retard from it "growing in length", but it won't stop it completley.
I like the collet, 'cause you don't have to lube, but as previously stated in post #2, you have to factor in neck tension "bullet grip", to get the best accuracy.
Red Cent
Member
Does anybody that has, say a 650, size before loading. What am I missing? Are we talking rifle brass? When I reload pistol/revolver, new brass, old brass, used a bunch brass goes into the hopper and is fed to the FL/deprime die.
New cases have these characteristics
The Lee Collet is a good way to make the necks consistant. The mandrel is .002" below caliber diameter for the full length
When you run the Lee Collet mandrel into a new case it will round them out and make them all the same ID. You don't even have to put weight on the lever or cam the press over, it works like an expander to expand the smaller new case ID to the dimension of the mandrel.
If you want more bullet grip than the Lee Collet mandrel size (~.002" below caliber), then you could set your FL die where you would normally set it to FL size your case and it will size the entire neck. The neck ID will then be the size of the expander. But the FL die will not size the case body or push the shoulder back since the new case dimensions are much smaller than what they will be after fire forming.
- The case body is made by the manufacturer to be small enough to fit in any chamber and the FL die should not size the case body
- The new case shoulder is made by the manufacturer to be far enough back so that the case will fit in any chamber of that caliber and you should not be able to set the FL die down far enough to even contact the shoulder
- New cases are made with a lot of bullet grip, usually in the neighborhood of .003" or so.
- New cases like Winchester, Remington, Federal or Hornady come with some of the necks bent and they need to be straightened
- New cases from Nosler, Lapua or Norma come with straight necks and do not need to be straightened prior to loading
The Lee Collet is a good way to make the necks consistant. The mandrel is .002" below caliber diameter for the full length
When you run the Lee Collet mandrel into a new case it will round them out and make them all the same ID. You don't even have to put weight on the lever or cam the press over, it works like an expander to expand the smaller new case ID to the dimension of the mandrel.
If you want more bullet grip than the Lee Collet mandrel size (~.002" below caliber), then you could set your FL die where you would normally set it to FL size your case and it will size the entire neck. The neck ID will then be the size of the expander. But the FL die will not size the case body or push the shoulder back since the new case dimensions are much smaller than what they will be after fire forming.
RC, Woods and DaggerDog, and all,
Thanks for the info. First time I have ever had partial length sizing setup explained. Thanks Dagger and RC on the Partial sizing and woods on the collet. The brass in question is 308 and 223.
Last question, before the partial sizing, should lube be used on the case neck?
Thanks for the info. First time I have ever had partial length sizing setup explained. Thanks Dagger and RC on the Partial sizing and woods on the collet. The brass in question is 308 and 223.
Last question, before the partial sizing, should lube be used on the case neck?
If you are using a Lee Collet you do not have to lube the neck, inside or out.
If you are using a die with an expander ball assembly that is a FL die then you have to use a little lube inside the the neck as well as on the case body.
With a die with an expander ball that is a Neck Sizing die then you only have to use a little lube on the inside of the neck. However you should use a little lube on the case body on the first case you resize just in case you have a rifle with a large chamber or a die with small interior dimensions. I have seen a regular expander ball neck sizing die try to grab on the case body and stuck cases are no fun.
If you are using a die with an expander ball assembly that is a FL die then you have to use a little lube inside the the neck as well as on the case body.
With a die with an expander ball that is a Neck Sizing die then you only have to use a little lube on the inside of the neck. However you should use a little lube on the case body on the first case you resize just in case you have a rifle with a large chamber or a die with small interior dimensions. I have seen a regular expander ball neck sizing die try to grab on the case body and stuck cases are no fun.
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