Legal read on FL CCW law

[knuckles]

I know, don't seek legal advice on anonymous message boards. That being said, what is your read on this bit from the FL CCW state law concerning 'off-limit' carry:

790.06(12)...any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;...

Of course this refers to 'bars'. The reason I ask, is that I frequent a 'dining' establishment most Friday nights. It's burger night and friends and I have decided to meet there on frequent occasions. Most establishments which serve both food and alcohol have a seperate 'bar' area making avoiding it pretty easy to figure out. However, this particular establishment is essentially one big room. There is a 'bar' area, against one wall in the center and tables occupying the rest of the establishment. Would one be ok sitting at one of these tables? In other words, does the law quoted above lead you to believe that you just shouldn't carry and go sit at the bar?

 

[Billy_H]

How it has always been explained to me...by lawyers well versed in Florida gun laws is that it means any part of a business who's main purpose is to dispense alcohol for consumption.

Meaning....take, Bennigans for example. It's a restaurant that has a bar inside. You are fine eating in the normal seating areas, but not at the bar (including the raised area around the bar that has tables).

From your description of the place I would think you would be ok. I'd do it, but just stay well clear of the bar.

I think I've made this recomendation before in another of your threads, but it would be well worth your while to pick up this book and read it and use it to refer back to.

Florida Firearms
Law, Use and Ownership
by: Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq.
www.FloridaFirearmsLaw.com

 

[Billy_H]

Ok, here is a direct quote from the book I listed in my last post...


This is from the section discussing where you are prohibited from carrying.

11. In any portion of a restaurant, bar, nightclub, or other establishment liscensed to serve alcohol for consumption on the premises (not a liquor store which only sells to packaged stuff vs. serving it) in the portion of the premises that is primarily devoted to that purpose.

In other words, if you go into a restaurant, you can't go into the bar, you can't even walk through the bar -- but you can sit at a dinner table, go to other places within the establishment not within or through the bar area, and even order drinks with your meal, or just order drinks. However, be warned, that in many of the reciprocal states you are prohibited from going in any establishment that serves alcohol, with a concealed weapon or firearm.

 

[knuckles]

I think I've made this recomendation before in another of your threads, but it would be well worth your while to pick up this book and read it and use it to refer back to.

Yep, that's right, I remember now. I'll definitely pick up a copy of that, the sooner the better. Thanks...

 

[Aguila Blanca]

My guess would be that the seated dining area would be okay, provided it offers a full dining menu. If all you can buy when seated at the tables is the same snacks and burgers they're offering at the bar, you might have more of a problem.

 

[Tim James]

Email Mr. Gutmacher. He will usually respond quickly with a short reply. Of course it would be nice if you buy his book first too

 

[Jeff Timm]

If it's one big room, it's one big bar. Always assume the worst when it comes to Laws.

Geoff
Who is paranoid about "interpretations."

 

[sig228]

In my non legal opinion, the key word here is "primarily"

TGIF, Ruby Tuesdays, etc. would be ok anywhere, except for the bar.
Joe's corner tavern, Bob's Pub, etc. = NO way

All the local Ale Houses = who knows?????????

 

[rickrock]

it was explained to me pretty clear by my CCW instructor...


you know FL has the no smoking in restaurants law. so if they allow smoking, its a bar and no carrying. If they don't allow smoking, its a restaurant and your good to carry, provided there aren't any signs saying not to.

 

[zamboxl]

The way that it was explained to me by a Ft lauderdale pd veteran of 25 years was: as long as the place main purpose is not a bar or a club you are ok. Like ale house is good, fridays is good, Chilis is good and so on.

 

[knuckles]

provided there aren't any signs saying not to.

Well, in Florida, posted signs can be ignored. The only places off limits are the ones that are specifically called out in the state statute.

if they allow smoking, its a bar and no carrying. If they don't allow smoking, its a restaurant and your good to carry,

However, this is spot on. I think that is definitely the way to look at it. If there are ash trays on the tables, no carry, otherwise, carry away....

So the burger joint mentioned the OP, it turns out, would be a no carry location.

 

[armedpolak]

interesting

i often go to a place called Aruba (Ft. Lauderdale), right by the ocean. They have a sitting area outside, smoking is allowed, I take it as a part of the restaurant (tables, full menu) so I CCW there. Or enter inside from the back, so I don't go *through* the bars to get to the table. Am I save, legally speaking?

Also, AMC Theaters has no guns sign (till I get my pocket gun ), you say I can ignore it?

 

[Big Calhoun]

I read it the same as it has been interepreted here by most. If you go to a 'bar', saloon, lounge...you are in violation. If you go to an establishment whose sole purpose is not to serve alcohol BUT has a dedicated area for serving alcohol (ie. bar), then you would be in violation while you sat in that designated area.

I like how Texas does it, plain and simple IMO. You simply can't carry anyplace that derives over 51 percent of their sales from alcohol. So that nixes bars and the likes. For restuarants, they have to display a '%51' sign in order to make that establishment 'off limits'.

 

[knuckles]

Also, AMC Theaters has no guns sign (till I get my pocket gun ), you say I can ignore it?

Well, you wouldn't be carrying unlawfully, you would be violating an AMC policy. They may ask you to leave and not come back, but it's not a legal matter. I have searched Florida statutes and have found no legislation detailing 'off-limits' postings sanctioned by law. As far as I can tell, the only off-limits places would be the ones spelled out in Section 790.06 (12).

790.06

As for the outdoor section of the restaurant you frequest, IMO you'd be ok there since you are not in the bar/lounge area of the establishment.

 

[lacoochee]

The funny thing about this whole coversation is this,

no one cares if you carry through a bar (you are carrying concealed) as long as you are not drinking and causing trouble. The next funny thing is that the most you can be charged with if you are somehow caught during a random strip search is a second degree misdemeanor, as long as you have a valid CCW in Florida. If for some reason you have a valid reason to use your firearm, well that's where things get tricky, you may not be given the benefit of the doubt if the deadly force you were responding to was borderline, otherwise I guess it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

I am of course not advocating carrying firearms in bars or while drinking, just pointing out that this is kind of like arguing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. It's pointless and unlikely to affect anyone who regularly posts on this board.

 

[knuckles]

no one cares if you carry through a bar

I am pretty sure those who made the law and those who enforce it would care.

The next funny thing is that the most you can be charged with if you are somehow caught during a random strip search is a second degree misdemeanor, as long as you have a valid CCW in Florida.

You could print in front of an off-duty having dinner or a couple of drinks and that wouldn't require a 'random strip' search. As for the second degree misdemeanor, if you have read the punishment that is involved with that, you'd notice that would most likely include the judge revoking your CCW.

It's pointless and unlikely to affect anyone who regularly posts on this board.

Truely reckless advice indeed (not to mention not very high road of you). If you think that spending up to but not more than 60 days 775.082 (4)(b)(b) in jail, getting a $500 775.083 (1)(e) fine, and losing your CCW 775.082 (7)is unlikely to affect anyone on this board, then keep counting angels...

 

[Ed Ames]

Egads... what's with all these restrictions? You folks should come out to California where a CCW holder is allowed to carry pretty much anywhere that doesn't have metal detectors (or federal laws) to keep you out.

 

[knuckles]

You folks should come out to California where a CCW holder is allowed to carry pretty much anywhere that doesn't have metal detectors (or federal laws) to keep you out.

I assume that's if you can get a CCW. I have heard that get one in certain parts of CA isn't easy and in some cases impossible...