LEO Concealed Carry

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Sorry if this has been asked before. I did use the search function and didn't see anything on it.

Does anyone know of LEOs having problems carrying concealed in other states? I am curious if this had popped up in cities and states where concealed carries are not allowed.
 
I understand that. I have heard so grumblings (from unconfirmed sources) that some states and cities were trying to find ways around it through legal definitions. This is more what I was looking for, any incidents where hr218 was ignored by a city or state.
 
No hard evidence, no practical negative experiences.

However, it is totally possible for them to ignore it- in the short term. The arrestee would, in all likelihood, win his court case, and would then probably win the subsequent lawsuit, and probably be able to afford a nice new house with the proceeds.

I'm waiting for some place (probably Chicago, DC, or NYC) to try and be a test case. I could totally see Hizzoner Daley deciding one day that federal law does not apply to his city.

Mike
 
And they will be found out if they do carry, if my experience has any bearing.

I know three city cops and to a man they are concealed carry slobs. All of them carry their Glocks OWB with tight shirts. Even their mag holders print. To them, concealed means covered. To me, a Texas CHL holder, concealed means invisible.:cool:

On the other hand, I once was in a temporary federal courtroom guarded by U.S. Marshals and try as I might, I could not spot any sign of a weapon. The young marshals wore dark gray suits, had burr haircuts, wore tacticool shoes and looked very much like G-Men. There was an older guy, though, that could have been Dirty Harry. Tan slacks, corduroy jacket and pointy-toed cowboy boots looked just right with his 70's haircut. He looked tough as nails. I just know that he had a .44 Mag :D , but I couldn't spot the slightest bulge.:scrutiny:
 
Daley did his best to punk his own officers by directing that Chicago would not release the required employment records so they could be certified under HR 218. I believe that's been circumvented at this point, but I could be wrong.

As for arresting LEO's carrying on that permit in Chicago, I wouldn't think so, but anything is possible up there. They do all sorts of fun stuff. A report came out only a couple of weeks ago stating that they're 100% certain that current CPD brass were involved in torturing suspects in the late 1970s, but the statute of limitations has run out. Imagine that! Daley wasn't Mayor back then, but he was a prosecutor, if I recall correctly, whose bailiwick would have included stopping just that sort of thing.
 
Daley did his best to punk his own officers by directing that Chicago would not release the required employment records so they could be certified under HR 218. I believe that's been circumvented at this point

You are correct. Don't recall details I'm sure ISP2065 can tell us if anybody needs to know.

A report came out only a couple of weeks ago stating that they're 100% certain that current CPD brass were involved in torturing suspects in the late 1970s, but the statute of limitations has run out. Imagine that! Daley wasn't Mayor back then, but he was a prosecutor, if I recall correctly, whose bailiwick would have included stopping just that sort of thing.

Actually he was the State's Attorney at least for some of that time and was notified of it in writing by the Chief of Police at the time.

NukemJim
 
It looks like in Montana at least they've managed to ignore the feds. From the Montana attorney general's web page.
However, since there are no state or local programs within Montana that qualify retired law enforcement officers to carry a concealed weapon under this provision, it is not yet possible for a retired officer to qualify in Montana. The federal legislation contained no provision or funding to create such a program. Given the lack of programs to qualify retired law enforcement officers in Montana, retired officers here are not able to carry concealed weapons under this federal legislation.

While a retired law enforcement officer may have a Montana concealed weapons permit, having that Montana permit does not meet the firearms qualifications required by the federal act and does not allow retired officers to operate under its provisions, either in Montana or when they travel out of state.
 
It looks like in Montana at least they've managed to ignore the feds.

Ok, there's ignoring the federal government when it's a good idea and then there's ignoring the federal govenment when it's just retarded. This is perhaps the second. Is an army of retired cops going to opress the rights of the civilian populace with thier concieled handguns? Come on. I've ran into people that I death with in the Army as an MP ten years later as a civilian cop. Once whileIt just makes sense to extend the concield carry to retired cops as well as active full time LEOs. I mean obviously criminals forgive you after you put in your 30 years and retire, right? No need to worry about getting shot. . here's your gold watch.
 
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hr218, a federal law, gives cops the right to carry anywhere in the US with virtually no restrictions.

So that means they can fly with their firearm ?

I think not.

Unless they file all kinds of paperwork with the airline.
 
i said virtually no restriction, didnt say NO restriction :neener: My understanding of HR218 is that anywhere a local off duty cop can carry, so can an out of state cop.
 
There's never been an issue with HR218 with CPD and Cook Co active officers. What CPD and Cook Co were doing impacted their retirees, not active officers. To qualify under LEOSA retirees have to be in some kind of retirement system and they must have left their agencies in good standing. The Cook Co and Chicago retirement systems, which are not LE agencies, would not give the retirees anything to say they left their agencies in good standing saying they didn't know what their status was in their former agencies. Their agencies were saying the retirees were in the retirement system but wouldn't release any further info. It was passing the buck type operation which left the retirees out in the cold. Some think it was a way to prevent retirees from carrying. However, anyone who has ever dealt with any local governmental agency in the Chicagoland area will know this type of run-around is typical of just about everything they do up there. It's pretty much the attitude of "Not my job so leave me alone." I dreaded going up there to do any kind of records check or get info from any of the Chicagoland agencies. Some real mental midgets and don't care attitudes employed by city and county agencies.
I believe the ILETSB has done or is working a way to work around. I haven't kept up with CPD/Cook Co issue so don't know the latest.
In Montana's case they are not ignoring LEOSA. Nothing in LEOSA mandates a state to implement a program for the retirees in a state. LEOSA only says that for retirees to carry then they must meet 7 guidelines and possess photo ID and certification. If a state doesn't have a program in place then retirees would be out of luck. IL was the same way until about a year ago. There was no state standard. A LEO could get out of the academy, spend the next 35-40 years as a LEO and never be required to shoot his gun for any kind of qualification or training. Agencies could set whatever standards they wanted, or none at all, and make the course as easy or as tough as they wanted. After LEOSA some agencies immediately set up programs for their retirees. Springfield, IL PD was one of the first PDs in the nation to qualify their retirees. The ISP started qualifying their retirees within a couple of months after LEOSA was signed. But if an agency didn't want to set up any type of qualification program for retirees there was nothing any one could do. LEOSA doesn't force an agency to do it. There was no state agency who had the authority to set up such a program. It came down to the ISP, Dept of Professional Reg, and the ILETSB, none of which had the legal authority to implement anything but each agreed something needed to be set up. So about a year ago the legislature mandated the ILETSB as the lead agency to qualify retirees. The retiree's former agency can still do it too but if that's not an option then the ILETSB thru the Mobile Training Units can do it. So I can do my retired qual shoot at the ISP at $5 per year or I can go thru the MTU at $100 per year.
At the same time the ILETSB set the minimum annual qualification shoot for all LEOs which is also the minimum qual for retirees. Implementing this minimum standard (and it's really minimal - www.isp.state.il.us/foid/hr218secondarycw.cfm) got a great deal of resistance from a lot of towns and counties. They did not want to be told they had to qualify their officers and face the added expense of paying for the ammo, training, and range staff. The IL municipalities swing a big stick but in this case the ILETSB prevailed and for the first time ever there's a minimum qualification standard in IL.
As far as flying while armed there are still the same restrictions for active LEOs. It's not that any LEO can just walk up and step on a plane. There's some training required and then there has to be a need. Retirees would be flying like any citizen and would have to check any firearms in baggage.
LEOSA has very few restrictions and allows LEOs and qualified retired LEOs to carry in any state, territory, or WDC, except for certain government buildings or where prohibited by individuals on their private property.
 
i said virtually no restriction, didnt say NO restriction My understanding of HR218 is that anywhere a local off duty cop can carry, so can an out of state cop.

I'm still trying to figure that out. By the end of December I will be a LEO in the state of Texas. As I understand it I'd be able to nearly carry anywhere in Texas.

If I'm visiting CA, would that hold true or am I supposed to abide by CA CHL laws? I haven't been able to figure that one out.
 
When the government fears its law enforcement officers.

We need to fear our government.

JMO
 
I heard that

NYPD doesn't let their cops carry outside of NY, and that no one obeys that rule.

Just hearsay though.

My brother is a cop outside of NYC & he told me that PRNJ will not allow hollow points, even if your a cop!
 
I have a friend who

Who is a "level 3" peace officer and nobody he has talked to including supervisors have even heard of hr218, he has no idea if he can or he cant legally carry outside of NV!

If I was a police officer I wouldn't worry but if I was a sherrif or a corrections officer I'd make darn sure before visiting NY, NJ where it's a felony to carry
 
"I'm still trying to figure that out. By the end of December I will be a LEO in the state of Texas. As I understand it I'd be able to nearly carry anywhere in Texas.

If I'm visiting CA, would that hold true or am I supposed to abide by CA CHL laws? I haven't been able to figure that one out."

As a LEO you can carry in any state, Washington DC, and any US territory. Just carry your dept ID card with you so other cops will know you are a cop and don't carry if you are under the influence of alcohol.
 
what about level 3?

a NV corrections officer is a level 3 peace officer and can carry in NV...how can I find out if my friend can carry in oyther states? his boss doesn't even know and never heard of hr218
 
"Who is a "level 3" peace officer and nobody he has talked to including supervisors have even heard of hr218, he has no idea if he can or he cant legally carry outside of NV!"

What is NV's "level 3" peace officer? What dept is he with?
If he's a correctional officer then he may or may not be covered by LEOSA. If his boss doesn't know then his boss' boss would know. In IL, state DOC correctional officers are not considered LEOs, they cannot carry firearms except in limited circumstances, and are not covered under LEOSA. What they are in NV either the agency head or the state AG will know.
If he is an actual LEO then this once again shows what I've said before. There have been constant questions from LEOs concerned about carrying in NYC, Chicago, and other large cities. I have stated repeatedly, and given examples, the concern should not be with the large city PDs. Those agencies have in place methods of ensuring latest laws and court rulings are passed down to their officers. The concern should be about the small, 1 man, part time depts who have an officer who doesn't have any interest in, nor makes no attempt to, stay current in the law. These aren't professional LEOs but in actuality are no more than door rattlers. It's too many of the small agencies which have nothing in place to ensure their officers stay current with new laws. I have seen it locally in my career with not only LEOSA but other new laws as well.
Here's a link to the LEOSA which was called HR218.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ277.108
I find it hard to believe tho that if your friend is a sworn LEO that he has not even at least heard of LEOSA. It's been one of the most discussed laws across the nation in LEO circles for the past 2 yrs. It's been a federal law for over 2 yrs, signed July 24, 2004. If he is a sworn LEO and hasn't heard of this then what other laws in his state does he not have a clue about? What has he done, and what does he do, to stay current in the law? Or does he care?
 
My friend is a NV dept of Corrections officer

And doesn't have a clue about many things...but he is a really nice guy!

He asked me to find out two months ago but I gave up because I couldn't get a straight yes/no answer.

If I was in the NDOC I know I would keep going up the chain of command till I got an answer in writing, but thats just me.

I will look at the link you provided...thanks!

edited to add.
RE: link.
from my reading of the law he looks like he can carry in other states! thats great news!
 
NYPD doesn't let their cops carry outside of NY, and that no one obeys that rule.
State and Local PDs can feel free to be as restrictive as they wish with their active duty officers, and make any sort of silly policy they wish. If the cop violates it, he will be breaking department policy, not state or federal law. Many PDs do this now, and don't even allow their officers to carry off duty. If they do it, the only thing they're doing is violating their PD's policy.

Mike
 
yup!

I agree withn you Sam, but every thread about nationwide reciprocity gets bogged down into a "keep the feds out" "taste great" argument.
 
I've read this with interest. As an LEO, I carry across state lines in accordance with HR218 quite often. We still are not permitted to carry (just like CCW holders) in certain places (unless on-duty) like secure areas of airports, federal courts, military reservations, National Parks, etc. If a state prohibits carry in schools or churches, we need to abide by that just like a CCW holder. I imagine if one of us gets caught it depends on the one doing the catching to decide the proper course of action.

I fly armed on commercial carrier flights when I'm transporting a prisoner. Why not when on vacation? HR218 and national reciprocity should extend to the skies as well. Could 9/11 have been discouraged by this? I think so.

Before 218 went into effect I carried on a state CCW that has broad reciprocity. 218 does the same, but adds the rest of the states. Outside of my own state, I'm just a guy with a state CCW.
 
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