LEO harassed my wife about CCW this morning

[Overkilll0084]

Why would one need to notify a LEO that you have the capability to CC but chose not to today? The absence of a firearm kind of makes the whole notification issue moot, required or not.

 

[Steve in PA]

Fire off a letter to the local media. Attend the monthly town meeting (if they have one). Fire off a letter to the chief citing the law that notification is NOT required.

 

[danez71]

When you have that conversation with the guy in charge.... when he says something like 'he was just trying to do his job... '

Ask him 'if he was just trying to do his job... why didnt he arrest her?'

There is a chance he (or the capt'n) knew he was wrong but thats the policy the dept wants. If they harrass correctly, the word gets out... and everyone starts to inform with out being asked because they think its the law.

My BIL is a LEO. He's mentioned those tactics usually trickled down from the brass. He flys helicopters for the LEA...... now.

 

[Dr_B]

they DO know that you have a CCW when they run your license. They CAN disarm you

Not exactly. Or at least it depends on the state and the LEO's habits.

For example, I have ridden with LEO's who stop a car, tell dispatch they are out of the car with [insert license plate number here], then they step out and approach the vehicle. Depending on the speed the dispatcher gets the information back to the officer, he/she might already be standing beside the driver's side door talking to the driver when it comes back over the radio that the driver has a CCW. So, there is usually room for you to let them know if you feel so inclined.

I am from TN, but have never been pulled over there while carrying. In my current state, Idaho, an LEO is not allowed to take your gun off of you unless you have done something threatening. If you have it in the glove box or on the seat, etc., they are allowed to ask you to step out of the vehicle, thus separating you from the gun.

Keeping your hands on the steering wheel... "Good morning/afternoon/evening Officer. Before we go any further, I just want you to be aware that I have a CCW and I am carrying. The gun is [where ever it is]." That'll usually get things off on the right foot. But then, LEO's are people too. They make mistakes and have all sorts of different personalities.

I think the right way to handle a bad encounter is indeed by making phone calls and writing letters (i.e., what you are already doing). Getting the word out to the right people. Always a bad idea to start arguing and being non-compliant on the roadside.

 

[357reloading]

just to be on safe side, i recomment showing ccw license when drivers license is presented. . provides op for conversation.

 

[armoredman]

I think there's something else here; if he did not have the legal authority to do what he did, remember he laid hands on your wife doing a pat down - find a sexual harrasment lawyer. There is nothing like a sexual harrasment charge to make the Dept lawyers soil themselves.

 

[theicemanmpls]

This is an odd one. The cop searched the car, we are assuming he did without asking?
The permit thing? She wasn't packing. A simple inquiry from the cop would of solved that problem.
The cop allegedly did a pat down of a female. I am not a cop, but on the TV show 'cops' they always bring out a female officer when touching is involved.
I have to ask, is this a real story? Or, a real Barney Fife officer.

 

[Jim K]

Call a civil liberties lawyer. Now. You both may be able to retire on the taxpayers' money. The question was irrelevant, the pat down was sexual abuse.

If she was not carrying, she had no need to show a license to carry.

Jim

 

[Ryanxia]

I don't mean to be anti-authority but we all need to look at the fact that we have rights and 'it's not a big deal just cooperate' may be nice but if we don't stand up for our rights they will become common practice in occurrences like these. Take a stand now so everyone knows there are repercussions involved when overstepping your authority and breaking the law. (If state law states that you do not have to produce CCW license than they are going too far).

 

[whalerman]

People recognize one thing. Power. Sue the idiot. It should have been handled completely differently. You won't win, but put the idiot's name out there and he will either change his behavior or find a new career. His bosses may also clean up their act, or get new careers as well.

 

[HankB]

If she was licensed, there was no reason to suppose she was carrying illegally.

In which case, the pat down was simply for the cop's amusement.

If there was no reason to suppose she was carrying illegally, the search was likely "treasure hunting" on the cop's part.

If the situation was as you described, there should be no shortage of lawyers willing to jump at the chance to take a case on a contingency basis.

 

[wojownik]

It is not necessarily illegal or improper in TN for a male PO to pat down a female if he feels his safety is at issue, or if there is no female officer present or available.

Still, both the pat down and vehicle search may be a problem for the PO, if no consent was given by the wife. No PC, no consent, bad search.

The wife did not get a name or badge number for the PO in question (or car number?). Might be hard to prove anything actually happened, or track down the video of the event, in case the dash cam was on.

 

[Ianp240]

The PO would have made a request for a background check on the vehicle and on your wife, that search will have been recorded in some database and logged out to the officer requesting it. That is the best way to ID the PO.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Did she get his name or badge number?

 

[jon_in_wv]

Whether or not you have to tell the officer you are armed is besides the point because the OP stated his wife wasn't carrying. She doesn't have to tell him squat if she isn't armed does she? I would suspect the search and detention were unlawful. If nothing else I would file a formal complaint against the officer.

 

[memphisjim]

where in tn was this?

 

[sig220mw]

Whether required or not, it is a good idea to tell them up front so as to not surprise them. As someone else stated earlier, they will run your license and the permit will show up anyway. Best to nip it in the bud and be forthcoming. That way you don't appear to be trying to hide anything.

 

[theicemanmpls]

Whether required or not, it is a good idea to tell them up front so as to not surprise them. As someone else stated earlier, they will run your license and the permit will show up anyway. Best to nip it in the bud and be forthcoming. That way you don't appear to be trying to hide anything.

But, the OP said wife wasn't packing that day. Ok, the cop comes up to the window, he wants license, insurance, and maybe registration. He runs the plates and the driver. Carry Permit pops up on his monitor. So far this is a traffic violation, and because of the permit, the cops assumes the motorist is not a criminal.

If it is or isn't state law to inform cop, he can ask, "got gun"?
Why say "I don't have a gun today officer"?

Why wife was pulled out of vehicle, I still don't understand. The OP's story has some holes in it.

BTW, when i was pulled over, I handed the cop my permit with my license. He didn't say anything. he was in a hurry to write me, and get back to his speed trap. The city is having money issues, and it seems the cops are always running community fund raising events.

 

[Deanimator]

Unofficial contacts are worthless.

You needs to file a formal complaint against the cop and follow up.

Were it not for the pat down, I would say that there's no grounds for suit. WITH the pat down, there may in fact be a pattern of behavior by that cop that either hasn't come to light, or has been swept under the carpet, as in the Harless case here in Ohio.

If he's improperly enforcing the law he needs to be stopped. If he's pawing women for personal amusement, he HAS to be CRUSHED.

 

[P-32]

The LEO's I have spoken to in west TN all told me that you are not required to tell them. But they do appreciate you telling them as a courtesy. Personally, when interacting with LEO's in my own town I always let the officer know.

This was me when I was a LEO. When some person told me they were packing, it told me a couple of things. 1 They are good people and 2 they could be my back up some late night. More times than not a warning was issued. Very few permit holders have committed a crime with a gun to begin with.

There should be a record in dispatch for the stop. I don't know about your local police, but in the area I worked, every radio transmisson/phone call to dispatch s recorded. You know your wife was checked and there should be a record of who checked her.

A search of her person and her purse dumped out on the trunk. The pat down is normal. We can do a pat down for safety. (I might question this unless your wife is one mean looking gal) No issue unless she felt he touched to far. the search of the purse had to be done with permission. If he did not ask if he could, and just dumped her purse out, he over stepped the color of his authority. If he was looking in places obviously too small to conceal a gun that too should get him some training on case law.

You do need to talk to the officer’s boss. Normally I would not suggest this because most of the time a person is just mad, but to put your hands on and detained a person outside of the scope of the stop is looking for trouble. That is unless there was something criminal going on. Your wife did nothing wrong other than a little speed over the limit. He had no right to do what he did since she was not carrying, told him so, and has a permit.

 

[lobo9er]

I always produce my CCW with my license when I'm stopped just as a matter of principle,

whats the principle?

 

[jon_in_wv]

Have you heard of the principle that whenever a cop answers a call there is a gun involved? HIS. I apply the same principle to a traffic stop. If the guy is just writing me a ticket why would I introduce a weapon into that? There is NO good to come of that. If the officer gets upset he is foolish and unprofessional. You have NOTHING to fear from a law abiding CCW holder and a crook isn't going to tell you either way. You treat all traffic stops with caution, that is HIS responsibility. He is no less safe whether I'm armed or not.

In my early career I did many traffic stops. I arrested a DUI with a sawed off shotgun in his car, and a drive by shooter with a Mac 10. I didn't know either one had the weapon in the car and neither guy told me.

 

[mopar92]

I'm not going to or try to make it a lawsuit, just weird why LEO can't understand such a simple law.

 

[Sam1911]

just weird why LEO can't understand such a simple law.

If it is actually true that the law was changed in the last few years, the officers/deputies may simply not be aware of that.

Law enforcement officers are usually pretty up to speed on drunk driving law, drug possession laws, and other things they run into a lot. Most really don't have "official" dealings with law-abiding firearms owners and their legally-possessed weapons very often, so they quite generally don't have a lot of exposure to the laws about CCW and RKBA.

If they pull over a drunk who's also got a bag of coke or pot in the car with him -- and a gun -- the officer's duties are pretty simple. But CCW types tend not to get a whole lot of official attention. He may not have run into this before -- or if he has once or twice, he may never have run into someone who will stand up (later, through official channels) and tell him and his department that what he's doing is unlawful.

By making your case with the department, you may indeed personally make a positive change in your own community.

 

[crossrhodes]

Question

I wonder what he would of done if she did have her firearm in the vehicle or in her purse....scary. I agree about a visit to the top LEO with a copy of the law in hand.