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Less-Lethal Alternatives?

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Ohio Rifleman

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While I fully support having lethal force (guns) should someone pose an immediate threat to your or your family's lives or well-being, might it make sense to also have a taser or pepper spray on hand?

I mean, if all you have is firearms, you only have two options:

1. Deadly force or
2. Do nothing but call police.

For example, if someone is trying to steal your car, lethal force isn't justified. But you still don't want some thug to steal your car. That's where it might be handy to have a taser or pepper spray handy.

Thoughts? Opinions?
 
If the police were to turn up accidentally and see someone forcing their way into your car would they draw their pistols?

If you are armed and the criminal knows you are armed and yet he still advances towards you, hasn't he just failed a 'reasonable man test'?
 
Why not?

Pepper spray is always a good thing to have in a pocket. There are crazy people in lots of places, people who could pose a threat but might not warrant being shot.

But I thought you were asking about shooting someone with .38 Special FMJ vs. .44 Magnum JHPs.:D

Is capsicum considered "less lethal"? Less than what? Greater than what? Is it ever lethal? If so, there should be a warning on some people's chili.:p
 
i agree it cant hurt to have an intermediate solution. Pepper spray is inexpensive, can get the job done when a situation gets physical, but not quite life threatening.

.
 
There is a time and a place for everything. A gun is not a tool to use if you only want to stop someone without killing them. If you send a bullet towards some one, there is a good chance you can kill them, and if that is not your intention then you are risking alot. All problems look like a nail to a hammer.

I think a taser is a good idea, if you got the space for it. I do not wear a bat belt myself, but I doubt you would have to conceal it... probably a lot less restrictions on one, but with the wacked out laws we have who knows. It would be an accessory to my handgun though. Pepper spray has too much chance of affecting the user to be counted on IMO.
 
If the police were to turn up accidentally and see someone forcing their way into your car would they draw their pistols?

If you are armed and the criminal knows you are armed and yet he still advances towards you, hasn't he just failed a 'reasonable man test'?
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point. If you just brandish a firearm, and the perp comes at you with a knife or the situation turns life-threatening, then lethal force would be justified.

However, you could get into trouble for "escalating" the situation with a firearm. Not saying I agree with that, just saying that that could happen.

Unfortunately, at my university, you can't even carry pepper spray or tasers or the like. :cuss:

But generally, there are fewer restrictions on carrying "less-lethal" weapons then there are on guns

PS "Less-lethal" seems to be the new term for "non-lethal" since there have been a few cases where people have died after being tased. Like that really fat guy in Cincinnati a while back who was tased by the police and died a while later.
 
shot shells?

I think along the lines of the OP. Killing a person is something you carry all your life, legally justified or not. OTOH if you cripple them, you might get sued.
At any rate, my partial solution is to load the first two rounds in ratshot. A spray of pellets in the face, along with the usual gunshot noise, should cause all but the toughest druggie to become a runner. If those first two don't work, the remainder are "stoppers".
But we also carry pepper spray when possible.

If you keep a shotgun at home, Taser just came out with a 12-gauge Taser round :eek:
 
No shotguns in the house. I've thought about buying one, but IMHO, shotguns are good for three things:

1. Trap/skeet
2. Hunting
3. Home defense

Out of those three, my only real use would be home defense, since the other two don't interest me. Mostly my guns are for fun, and a 12ga shotgun ain't a plinkin' gun.
 
Here in the old line state we are denied the 2nd part of the right to keep or BEAR arms, outside of our residence/place of buisness. CHLs are issued at the sole discresion of the police to protect the elite, and their money, but not to protect our lives or our family's life, so I keep a little can of fox labs with me to bestow a little tex-mex justice on any would be BGs. The largest benefit of CS is the fact it is extremely effective on wildlife and the occasional angry dog without a leash (packs of them roving around B-more). Home is a little different, we don't have a "castle doctrine" and the state is extremely prejudiced against gun owners and the use of defensive force, so basically outside of throwing a string of firecrackers (also not legal) and calling the police there is not a lot we can do to stop a determined car thief without putting ourselves in harms way by the crook, or the law. If someone enters my home, the alarm hopefully sends them running, if not Lethal force is just about the only type of force that situation would call for, the old carried by 6 or trial by 12, especially with all the 5+ person home invasion squads around here.
 
Man, I can't imagine what it's like living behind enemy lines in Maryland or California and such. My sympathy to you, alucard.

Unfortunately, my right to keep and bear arms doesn't apply until I turn 21. (I turned 20 back in April.) So, that's why I've put some thought into tasers or pepper spray or some other "intermediate" level of force. It would also be hard for me to have a human life on my conscience, even if it was totally justified.
 
If the police were to turn up accidentally and see someone forcing their way into your car would they draw their pistols?

If you are armed and the criminal knows you are armed and yet he still advances towards you, hasn't he just failed a 'reasonable man test'?

That is an interesting point. If you just brandish a firearm, and the perp comes at you with a knife or the situation turns life-threatening, then lethal force would be justified.

However, you could get into trouble for "escalating" the situation with a firearm. Not saying I agree with that, just saying that that could happen.
Click to expand...

We had a case in WI a year or so ago where a man was in such a predicament- someone was breaking into his car on the street in front of his house, he approached with a gun, perp came at him with a tire iron, man shot perp, man is now doing 20 years.:banghead:
 
Maybe this is another thread...but where CAN'T I carry my pepper spray.

Federal buildings?

Airports up to security area (I know I can check up to 4oz)?

Others?
 
It probably varies greatly. I know I can't carry pepper spray at my university. :banghead: I'd venture to say that'd probably go for most colleges/universities. Probably best to ask someone in the know wherever you plan on being.
 
"Less lethal" devices exist to appease groups who believe that police should have more options before they just shoot someone. They DO cause deaths every year, and are unpredictable in their result. They are also MUCH more likely to affect the person using it than a firearm. Sprays are subject to wind and close-confrontation contact. Tasers/stun guns have a range much shorter than a gun. Stun guns in particular are always contact weapons. If I HAVE to be close enough to an attacker to use a contact weapon, I'm pulling the CKRT folder clipped in my right front pocket.
 
carrying pepper spray isn't that bulky - just slip it into your pocket. The size is much much smaller that most sidearms we carry. I thought about carrying as a first line for those "before SHTF". A friend of mine distributes to LEOs, figure I'll get some from him since it seems like his stuff is acceptable.
 
However, you could get into trouble for "escalating" the situation with a firearm. Not saying I agree with that, just saying that that could happen.
Click to expand...
In the US do you (non LEO) have the power to arrest someone who you see committing a serious crime? We do here in the UK.
 
The Pig Catapult is always a possibility.

http://www.accoutrements.com/products/10978.html

10978.jpg


I've got one. It's never failed me.
 
In the US do you (non LEO) have the power to arrest someone who you see committing a serious crime? We do here in the UK.
Click to expand...

You mean like a "citizens arrest?" As far as I know, non-LEO's can't do anything like that here. I'm surprised you can do that in Airstrip One. You learn something new every day, I suppose.
 
It varies from state to state. In Utah, for example, one can make a citizen's arrest, BUT, you have the same responsibilities as LE to determine probable cause, which many cops don't even fully understand, and you are NOT allowed to use deadly force to make an arrest, only to defend yourself from a forcible felony, two different things.

I don't believe at all in escalation of force. Deadly force is the ONLY force. If it's not worth acting decisively to stop their actions, then I don't see myself ever jumping in the furball.
 
For example, if someone is trying to steal your car, lethal force isn't justified. But you still don't want some thug to steal your car. That's where it might be handy to have a taser or pepper spray handy.
Click to expand...

What's your plan after using pepper spray or a TASER? Neither's going to magically solve your problem.

mljdeckard, like the sig line, but shouldn't it be "DLI helping maintain the national average on first, second, and third time divorces"
 
"The less lethal alternative is for Mr. BadGuy to turn around and run like hell."
That is what I was thinking. If your doing some thing you could go to jail for and some one points a gun at you the smart thing to do would be to run like hell or assume the position. And not charge the guy with the gun to see if it works.
 
I also agree with this, and my SD choices reflect that likelihood.
I use ratshot as #1 & #2 round, followed by normal SD loads.
If they aren't runners by the time #3 comes up, it's time to stop them.
 
:what:

:what:

Rex B- I also agree with this, and my SD choices reflect that likelihood.
I use ratshot as #1 & #2 round, followed by normal SD loads.
If they aren't runners by the time #3 comes up, it's time to stop them.
Click to expand...


Your just asking for trouble there, LAWSUIT trouble. Shoot to kill or don't shoot at all, otherwise you will more than likely end up in the slammer.
 
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