fourdeuce82d
Member
"+~204 FPE at the muzzle, would the step up to a .44 really make a difference"
Heavier, (250grn vs 125grn) wider bullet with a better ballistic co-e.
Heavier, (250grn vs 125grn) wider bullet with a better ballistic co-e.
Lever-action .357 carbine: a good defensive arm?
- Thread starter P. Plainsman
- Start date
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grendelbane
Member
I have no doubt that a .357 lever action carbine can be an adequate defense weapon. However, there are 2 issues I would like to warn about.
Some one mentioned over penetration. This would be possible with some loads. Heavy soft point, cast, and full metal jacket bullets will penetrate more than they would out of a revolver. This could cause some problems.
Lightweight hollow points may be going so fast that they expand quickly, and do not penetrate deep enough. The 125 grain JHP's fall into this category. This definitely can cause problems.
While the carbine and the revolver can chamber and fire the same ammunition, the optimum loading for either one is likely to be quite different.
Of course, this can vary with your target. 158 grain JHP's for the revolver, and 158 grain JSP's for the carbine might be a happy compromise.
In general, I think that the carbine would serve best if fed a diet of the heavier bullets. YMMV.
Some one mentioned over penetration. This would be possible with some loads. Heavy soft point, cast, and full metal jacket bullets will penetrate more than they would out of a revolver. This could cause some problems.
Lightweight hollow points may be going so fast that they expand quickly, and do not penetrate deep enough. The 125 grain JHP's fall into this category. This definitely can cause problems.
While the carbine and the revolver can chamber and fire the same ammunition, the optimum loading for either one is likely to be quite different.
Of course, this can vary with your target. 158 grain JHP's for the revolver, and 158 grain JSP's for the carbine might be a happy compromise.
In general, I think that the carbine would serve best if fed a diet of the heavier bullets. YMMV.
The_Antibubba
Member
WARNING!!!!
DON'T use RN or FMJ in a Lever Action!
Since Levers have a tubular magazine, the rounds rest nose-to-rim. The recoil of a shot could cause a rounded nose to "touch off" a primer, igniting the whole magazine. You must stick to SWC, FN, JHP, or HP. WCs probably won't feed.
That still leaves you a lot of ammo options.
DON'T use RN or FMJ in a Lever Action!
Since Levers have a tubular magazine, the rounds rest nose-to-rim. The recoil of a shot could cause a rounded nose to "touch off" a primer, igniting the whole magazine. You must stick to SWC, FN, JHP, or HP. WCs probably won't feed.
That still leaves you a lot of ammo options.
P. Plainsman
Member
That is advice well worth hearing. Thank you, sir.
I take it that "FN" stands for "flat nosed," and thus would include semi-jacketed softpoints?
After mulling the various helpful posts in this thread, I am inclined to use 158 gr SJSPs for plinking and 158 gr JHPs for a defensive load.
I take it that "FN" stands for "flat nosed," and thus would include semi-jacketed softpoints?
After mulling the various helpful posts in this thread, I am inclined to use 158 gr SJSPs for plinking and 158 gr JHPs for a defensive load.
Tony Mig
Member
I started off shooting 158 Gr. SWC's through my Winchester '94 until I got a bullet mold for 158 Gr, RNFP's. Both bullets shoot with outstanding accuracy, and both do a lot of damage to bowling pins. I shot a plastic Tide detergent bottle full of water with a RNFP, and it exploded the bottle.
I don't believe I need to invest in JHP's, when my own cast bullets can cause sufficient damage.
I cast my bullets from old wheel weights, and quench them right out of the mold. I've loaded them from mild .38 Spl's, to maximum .357 magnum strength, and have not seen any signs of leading.
I don't believe I need to invest in JHP's, when my own cast bullets can cause sufficient damage.
I cast my bullets from old wheel weights, and quench them right out of the mold. I've loaded them from mild .38 Spl's, to maximum .357 magnum strength, and have not seen any signs of leading.
ducktapehero
Member
I'd like to know this too. Would this be safe?
http://www.sb-usa.com/handgun_pages/handgun_sba03572_spec.htm
P. Plainsman
Member
Exactly the ammo I had in mind.
The_Antibubba
Member
FN and SJFP
Yes, those are fine rounds to try. You just don't want something that might "strike" the primer, and that feeds reliably. I have a Rossi Puma 92 in .357/.38 that feeds Magtech .357, 158 gr SJSP flawlessly, but jams up on every shot with American Eagle JSP. .38s aren't yet reliable through it, either, although I've heard this is not uncommon on the Rossis. And I only have a few hundred rounds through, too.
I've never handle one, but I've heard there are old Savage Leverguns that were magazine loaders, and thus were able to handle spitzer or FMJ rounds. Anyone have experience with these?
Yes, those are fine rounds to try. You just don't want something that might "strike" the primer, and that feeds reliably. I have a Rossi Puma 92 in .357/.38 that feeds Magtech .357, 158 gr SJSP flawlessly, but jams up on every shot with American Eagle JSP. .38s aren't yet reliable through it, either, although I've heard this is not uncommon on the Rossis. And I only have a few hundred rounds through, too.
I've never handle one, but I've heard there are old Savage Leverguns that were magazine loaders, and thus were able to handle spitzer or FMJ rounds. Anyone have experience with these?
P. Plainsman
Member
UPDATE
Well, I got the Marlin 1894C.
It's light, sweet-shooting, and just oozes old-school goodness. Recoil with .357s is mellow; with .38 spls it's a rounding error. Working the lever action is fun. To me, it seems to touch the same pleasure center as handling a revolver. My thanks to everyone who pitched in on this thread.
As earlier posts disclosed, I'm a rank novice as a rifleman (and cross-dominant, which is a pain). But even I can use the iron sights on this Marlin to score solid hits at 25 yards. The gun itself is obviously capable of far more.
I'd like to take advantage of some of that performance. My next long gun is going to be a .22 rifle -- a.k.a. marksmanship academy. I'm going to shoot the heck out of it, take some classes, build skill. My eye is on the Marlin 39A or the Ruger 77/22.
And then, maybe, a way down the road, it will be time to think about Long Gun #3: a deer rifle. Maybe a .30-30 or a .270 Win. Been reading all sorts of rifle stuff on the Internet this week, learning the calibers and lingo. (I don't really grok scopes, but that will come.)
See how they get their hooks in you.
Well, I got the Marlin 1894C.
It's light, sweet-shooting, and just oozes old-school goodness. Recoil with .357s is mellow; with .38 spls it's a rounding error. Working the lever action is fun. To me, it seems to touch the same pleasure center as handling a revolver. My thanks to everyone who pitched in on this thread.
As earlier posts disclosed, I'm a rank novice as a rifleman (and cross-dominant, which is a pain). But even I can use the iron sights on this Marlin to score solid hits at 25 yards. The gun itself is obviously capable of far more.
I'd like to take advantage of some of that performance. My next long gun is going to be a .22 rifle -- a.k.a. marksmanship academy. I'm going to shoot the heck out of it, take some classes, build skill. My eye is on the Marlin 39A or the Ruger 77/22.
And then, maybe, a way down the road, it will be time to think about Long Gun #3: a deer rifle. Maybe a .30-30 or a .270 Win. Been reading all sorts of rifle stuff on the Internet this week, learning the calibers and lingo. (I don't really grok scopes, but that will come.)
See how they get their hooks in you.
DHart
Member
Plainsman... excellent choice. That was my first Marlin lever rifle. Now I have four of them! They are addicting! My most recent is the 1894SS (stainless steel .44magnum). As with most new lever rifles, the action was pretty darned stiff (and my extractor needed some work to allow smooth feeding). If you are at all slightly so-inclined, I would encourage you to smooth-up your new Marlin... you won't believe the difference it makes in speed and easy of operation. Tuneup directions are here:
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/MARLIN1894.htm
Enjoy!
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/MARLIN1894.htm
Enjoy!
Nathanael_Greene
Member
Now that you're a proud Marlin owner, join the good folks over at:
http://www.marlinowners.com/board/
...for lots of camaraderie and helpful information.
http://www.marlinowners.com/board/
...for lots of camaraderie and helpful information.
sendtoscott
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 76
"Anyone know at what rifle barrel length you will stop seeing velocity gains for the average 357 and 44 magnum factory ammunition? By average I mean the stuff that isn't specifcly loaded for rifle lenght barrels. Thx.
Was this ever answered? Is there a good reason to go past 16" for the .357 or .44?
Was this ever answered? Is there a good reason to go past 16" for the .357 or .44?
Join leverguns.com for a bunch of hard core levergunners.
I've got a Marlin 1894 .44 Mag myself cause I wanted a more all-around utility rifle. A .44 will certainly stop a man in his tracks, and also a black bear, wild pig or deer, small car, golf cart, etc..
I've got a Marlin 1894 .44 Mag myself cause I wanted a more all-around utility rifle. A .44 will certainly stop a man in his tracks, and also a black bear, wild pig or deer, small car, golf cart, etc..
DHart
Member
The only reason I could see for going beyond a 16" barrel is for long range shooting or hunting you get a little longer sighting radius and probably a bit of a bump in velocity (provided slow burning magnum powder is used). Personally, I prefer the compact size of the 16" and it meets my needs quite well.
denver express
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2004
- Messages
- 7
Not only is the Marlin 357 carbine a good choice for a defensive weapon, it's also a great hunting, plinking,and competion rifle. I've owned one since the mid 70's and have put thousands of cast bullet loads through it in CAS matches, and have put much venison on the table with jacketed bullet loads. My latest trophy with it was a 150 pound (dressed) hog here in South Fla. using 158 gr Federal factory loads.
In all the years I've owned and shot it, I've only had one part failure, and that was the ejector spring.
Ron
In all the years I've owned and shot it, I've only had one part failure, and that was the ejector spring.
Ron
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