Liberty vs. Browning (safe dealers help!)
- Thread starter Trent
- Start date
- Status
The difference between a Brown Safe and a Graffunder safe is Brown puts the fire concrete on the outside of the thick metal safe and Graffunder puts the fire lining on the inside of steel plates so you lose some storage space with the Graffunder.
dirtykid
Member
Sheez, I was hopeing to find a thread like this,as I am in the market for a BETTER gun safe than what I currently have,(which is a $129 stack-on )
I was thinking about maybe spending $1000 bucks for something more sturdy,but now reading thru all of this,I feel like it would be better to try to conceal them behind / under things,and just add extra coverage to my homeowners policy in case of fire/tornado,
Or spend $3000 + just for minor degree of comfort knowing the thiefs would be slowed down ever so slightly.
Im really on a budget of less than a grand, anybody have some suggestions about the cheaper safes ??
I was thinking about maybe spending $1000 bucks for something more sturdy,but now reading thru all of this,I feel like it would be better to try to conceal them behind / under things,and just add extra coverage to my homeowners policy in case of fire/tornado,
Or spend $3000 + just for minor degree of comfort knowing the thiefs would be slowed down ever so slightly.
Im really on a budget of less than a grand, anybody have some suggestions about the cheaper safes ??
gonefishin1
Member
yea find one used on craigslist there are lots for under a grand
Fella's;
When it comes to RSC's, find the one that gives you what you need at the lowest cost. For anything in the $1,000.00 range there's no practical protective difference from one brand to another.
In my opinion, at the high end of RSC's, the AMSEC BF series is probably the best bang-for-the-buck. But, I've had no hands-on experience with a Sturdy or Summit Denali.
The sad fact is, that when you start putting serious amounts of steel in a protective container, you get the attendant costs of that plate steel. Which not only includes the price of the material, but the increased labor to cut it, move it, weld it, and form it into a good safe. For instance, you can't get a credit card into the door/frame seam of a Graffunder. I have met RSC's that I can stick the end of one of my fingers into that same seam. You don't have to guess which one's more susceptable to a pry bar attack. And, if they just bend the sheet metal sides of that RSC, and bend again, and again, to form the bolt frame - - well you've just locked up behind bent sheet metal. The Graffunder frame is .750" plate steel. So try to drag a 1.25" solid bolt through that frame to pop the door when you can't get the tip of an effective prybar into the seam. I'll sell tickets to watch you engage in futile behaviour.
Yeah, safes cost more. But, you get what you pay for.
900F
When it comes to RSC's, find the one that gives you what you need at the lowest cost. For anything in the $1,000.00 range there's no practical protective difference from one brand to another.
In my opinion, at the high end of RSC's, the AMSEC BF series is probably the best bang-for-the-buck. But, I've had no hands-on experience with a Sturdy or Summit Denali.
The sad fact is, that when you start putting serious amounts of steel in a protective container, you get the attendant costs of that plate steel. Which not only includes the price of the material, but the increased labor to cut it, move it, weld it, and form it into a good safe. For instance, you can't get a credit card into the door/frame seam of a Graffunder. I have met RSC's that I can stick the end of one of my fingers into that same seam. You don't have to guess which one's more susceptable to a pry bar attack. And, if they just bend the sheet metal sides of that RSC, and bend again, and again, to form the bolt frame - - well you've just locked up behind bent sheet metal. The Graffunder frame is .750" plate steel. So try to drag a 1.25" solid bolt through that frame to pop the door when you can't get the tip of an effective prybar into the seam. I'll sell tickets to watch you engage in futile behaviour.
Yeah, safes cost more. But, you get what you pay for.
900F
a1abdj
Member
If you have really long fingers, sometimes you can stick them into one seam, and out the other side.
dirtykid
Member
I found this very informative,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8
Its a little long,and the guy is obviously selling his brand, but it pretty much sums up what others have said already, you get what you pay for,,
im glad I watched it before I went forward with my previous idea, He really sums it up with the comment that you are "centralizing" your valuables, and as soon as a thief finds the safe they will either cut-and-run with whatever trinkets they can easily carry out, or if they are comfortable enough,will stay and try to get at whats behind the magic door.
I will hold off until I can invest in something meant to take the abuse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8
Its a little long,and the guy is obviously selling his brand, but it pretty much sums up what others have said already, you get what you pay for,,
im glad I watched it before I went forward with my previous idea, He really sums it up with the comment that you are "centralizing" your valuables, and as soon as a thief finds the safe they will either cut-and-run with whatever trinkets they can easily carry out, or if they are comfortable enough,will stay and try to get at whats behind the magic door.
I will hold off until I can invest in something meant to take the abuse
Most RSCs will keep MOST residential burglars out. The sheet-metal cabinets won't.
Better buys more time, that's all. It also costs more and weighs more. Buy what your circumstances indicate.
Remember, though, even if you buy and install a bank vault - a pro can still get in. Pros generally don't do residential, unless you've got a million dollar collection. I don't know - does a $10k safe attract pros?
Finally, if a couple of thugs are holding a weapon to a loved one's head - the quality of the safe becomes moot. Layer your protection, and don't lock it all in the safe!
Better buys more time, that's all. It also costs more and weighs more. Buy what your circumstances indicate.
Remember, though, even if you buy and install a bank vault - a pro can still get in. Pros generally don't do residential, unless you've got a million dollar collection. I don't know - does a $10k safe attract pros?
Finally, if a couple of thugs are holding a weapon to a loved one's head - the quality of the safe becomes moot. Layer your protection, and don't lock it all in the safe!
Cesiumsponge
Member
The best door you'll get on a RSC is AMSEC's BF series which come with 1/2" solid plate doors. The body and frame isn't plate steel, but most chuckleheads attack the hinges, the door, the handle, and the lock dial.
The best boltwork on a RSC is probably "Griffin" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBVUDCicerA
Even the E-rate construction: 1" solid steel plate body with 1.5" steel door with additional aggregate concrete barrier roughly translates to TL-15, which is a very entry-level burglar rating. Steel becomes a pretty poor barrier once you get into sophsticated thieves with equipment. A safe doesn't attract people if no one knows about it. I don't tell people about what I have. People have a tendency to spread information in a non-malicious way which ends up in malicious hands. You must keep in mind a $10,000 gun safe with a $1 million collection can be defeated with a $5 tool. Any serious burglar only needs to put a knife up to your throat or that of a loved one and that safe is open.
It's fun to covet all the fancy stuff, but most people will be fine with a RSC and proper layers of security. Know your weaknesses and buff them with layered security!
The best boltwork on a RSC is probably "Griffin" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBVUDCicerA
Even the E-rate construction: 1" solid steel plate body with 1.5" steel door with additional aggregate concrete barrier roughly translates to TL-15, which is a very entry-level burglar rating. Steel becomes a pretty poor barrier once you get into sophsticated thieves with equipment. A safe doesn't attract people if no one knows about it. I don't tell people about what I have. People have a tendency to spread information in a non-malicious way which ends up in malicious hands. You must keep in mind a $10,000 gun safe with a $1 million collection can be defeated with a $5 tool. Any serious burglar only needs to put a knife up to your throat or that of a loved one and that safe is open.
It's fun to covet all the fancy stuff, but most people will be fine with a RSC and proper layers of security. Know your weaknesses and buff them with layered security!
JohnBT
Member
"into one seam, and out the other side."
That's just not right. The door on my grandparents' outhouse fit better than that. A whole lot better.
John
P.S. - They had indoor plumbing too.
That's just not right. The door on my grandparents' outhouse fit better than that. A whole lot better.
John
P.S. - They had indoor plumbing too.
Cesiumsponge
Member
The Denali also has a much thicker body than the AMSEC BF, but uses a drywall fireboard construction. The BF uses a thin inner and outer sheet metal shell with a concrete firefill barrier. The BF is therefore less burglar-resistant on the body but more fire resistant. The price difference is probably also significant between two comparable sizes. Either are suitable, depending on what your needs are.
Trent, if you're looking to spend Graffunder-kind of money, you can also take a look at refurbished commercial safes and do your own interior which saves a few bucks. Graffunder is a turn-key product but you also pay a price premium for handcrafted workmanship, if that's important to you, such as fit and finish.
Trent, if you're looking to spend Graffunder-kind of money, you can also take a look at refurbished commercial safes and do your own interior which saves a few bucks. Graffunder is a turn-key product but you also pay a price premium for handcrafted workmanship, if that's important to you, such as fit and finish.
Well, basically I split my collection in to two categories. "Irreplacable" and "everything else".
The first category I set a budget of 10K on a safe. The second category I set a budget of 4K on an RSC.
Without going in to specific details I'd rather avoid talking about, this will allow me the peace of mind I need. Fire protection is critical, living in the country with a volunteer fire department, it's likely the house would be a total loss if the worst ever happened.
Eventually (1-2 years) I'm adding the vault - 8" of reinforced concrete will keep EVERYTHING cool even if the house burns down around it. That'll also let me secure accessories, ammo, etc. (I'm not fitting 15K rounds of 7.62x54R in a safe.. etc..)
The first category I set a budget of 10K on a safe. The second category I set a budget of 4K on an RSC.
Without going in to specific details I'd rather avoid talking about, this will allow me the peace of mind I need. Fire protection is critical, living in the country with a volunteer fire department, it's likely the house would be a total loss if the worst ever happened.
Eventually (1-2 years) I'm adding the vault - 8" of reinforced concrete will keep EVERYTHING cool even if the house burns down around it. That'll also let me secure accessories, ammo, etc. (I'm not fitting 15K rounds of 7.62x54R in a safe.. etc..)
Trent;
Plus 1 on not keeping ammo in the safe. That's never a good idea for a couple of reasons. A. You're keeping a relatively low-cost high-bulk items in valuable space. B. If the interior temp of the safe ever reaches the ignition point for even one round of ammo, they all go off. I've seen the results of that, and it's not pretty.
My advice for ammo is to buy a surplus military steel double-door locker & store it in there. Just get one with a lock on the door.
900F
Plus 1 on not keeping ammo in the safe. That's never a good idea for a couple of reasons. A. You're keeping a relatively low-cost high-bulk items in valuable space. B. If the interior temp of the safe ever reaches the ignition point for even one round of ammo, they all go off. I've seen the results of that, and it's not pretty.
My advice for ammo is to buy a surplus military steel double-door locker & store it in there. Just get one with a lock on the door.
900F
Last edited:
Nothing like a 3000+ pound bomb going off in the basement to ruin the day in your neighborhood....
Don't plan on storing ammo in the safe. The future 12x20 vault, though.. that's a different story. Was planning to keep ALL the gun stuff in there, primers, powder, ammo, etc.
Not a good idea?
Don't plan on storing ammo in the safe. The future 12x20 vault, though.. that's a different story. Was planning to keep ALL the gun stuff in there, primers, powder, ammo, etc.
Not a good idea?
cbpagent72
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
- Messages
- 52
Wow, that is awesome that there was an actual test of residential security containers and the AMSEC BF series came out on top and the Griffin ended up having the best bolt work. When I was looking at safes under $3000.00 a few months ago I wasn't able to find that extensive test, care posting your sources? I skipped the BF series because of the 10 gauge thickness body and everything I read including info from AMSEC STATED that the gypsum type concert did not add any protection and I was interested in the Griffin safe but the made in China label kind of scared me away.
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
a1abdj
Member
I know. The excitement tends to wear off when you know how little that test actually means.
It is one of the more "advanced" safes in its price range
This safe does have pretty darn good boltwork as far as gun safes are concerned. I would like to take the time to poitn out that Griffin is not the manufacturer. The B rates that we sell are the same safe, and we do source them through him on occasion. He is a distributor for the actual manufacturer.
Sometimes you simply can't Google what you need to know. However, taking a good look around this very forum could have answered many of your questions.
The fill material in the AMSEC is certainly not "gypsum type", and it certainly does add burglary protection.
The irony is thick here.
Graffunder C7248 has been decided on.
I went a bit over my original budget (getting a safe that heavy installed is no small task of logistics, nor is it cheap), but after seeing what level of security RSC's have, and weighing that against the value and rarity of what I want to secure, the additional expense is easily justified. It even passed the muster of She Who Must Be Obeyed.
Thanks for the loads of good advice and help, everyone! You all DEFINITELY helped steer me in the direction I needed to head!
I went a bit over my original budget (getting a safe that heavy installed is no small task of logistics, nor is it cheap), but after seeing what level of security RSC's have, and weighing that against the value and rarity of what I want to secure, the additional expense is easily justified. It even passed the muster of She Who Must Be Obeyed.
Thanks for the loads of good advice and help, everyone! You all DEFINITELY helped steer me in the direction I needed to head!
Cesiumsponge
Member
Trent, read this for funsies while you're waiting for the build: http://www.graffundersafes.com/doc/inside-graffunder.pdf
- Status
