Limited Component Load Development

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You are certainly right about being on the menu, I was referring to kneeling down, using a shooting stick or a tree to create anything beyond a standing and shooting off hand. I’ve had a few drop off hand but nothing spectacular ~ 90 yards with my 30-30 4x scope is about max for my off hand ability.
Benchrest shooting really doesn’t play into hunting very well, sorry for the misunderstanding and there are certainly guys that excel off hand as well, I think we’ve all had a shoots we’d like to do over, most guys won’t mention them though.
That swamp looks like real challenge, pretty amazing difference between the two landscapes.

Beautiful country! I like your pet bear! F&W won’t let us keep them anymore.

Most of my load development is real short. Does it put the first bullet from a cold barrel where I want it at typical pig or deer range? Yup! We’re good! or, Nope, so let’s try mid range… then closer to max. If still nope, then I start from scratch with a different powder.

I did a few years of bug hole chasing. That led to competitive shooting. That led to some real disappointment in the human race.

Glad you didn’t take offense cause there was surely none meant. Most of the real riflemen here can outshoot me with both eyes tied behind their backs and there’s no sense saying otherwise. I just thought it was funny the image of setting up a bench in the jungle and hoping some lion would walk within range of it….

Have yourself a Blessed day, sir!

 

[AJC1]

Beautiful country! I like your pet bear! F&W won’t let us keep them anymore.

Most of my load development is real short. Does it put the first bullet from a cold barrel where I want it at typical pig or deer range? Yup! We’re good! or, Nope, so let’s try mid range… then closer to max. If still nope, then I start from scratch with a different powder.

I did a few years of bug hole chasing. That led to competitive shooting. That led to some real disappointment in the human race.

Glad you didn’t take offense cause there was surely none meant. Most of the real riflemen here can outshoot me with both eyes tied behind their backs and there’s no sense saying otherwise. I just thought it was funny the image of setting up a bench in the jungle and hoping some lion would walk within range of it….

Have yourself a Blessed day, sir!

You come north to the Georgia line they allow a bear hunt in the okiefanoke swamp. Haven't looked into it to hard yet...

 

[JFrank]

I get a big thrill from Bear hunting, this guy was running uphill quartering away, I missed him off hand with my first two shots and finally dropped at about 90 yards bracing myself against my Jeep. It amazing how fast they really are.

 

[Nature Boy]

OP,

You might find something in this lengthy thread helpful

Rifle load development methods compared

I’ve been curious how load development performed at 100 yards would stack up compared to the traditional ladder test shot at distance. Time and weather finally allowed me a window to get it done this morning. Bottom line: both methods compared favorably to each other. First, here’s the...

www.thehighroad.org

 

[DMW1116]

I was looking through that earlier. Since I'm without a chronograph, I'm relying solely on position relative to the POA. Considering I'm also limited to 200 yards, I'll probably miss some nodes. However, for a first try, I'm amazed at how I never noticed the groups jumping around like they do relative to the POA. There appears to be a decent load around 17.8 grains, as these are relatively close compared to the others around it. There is also a pair fairly close together at the upper end around 18.7 to 18.9 grains. I may have run just shy of it. I stopped at 18.9 grains and it may continue for 3 increments up to 19.1. I may run 18.7 through 19.1 and see what happens. This charge range would almost certainly cycle my 16" rifle. That would be a bonus, but not absolutely required.

 

[thump_rrr]

Where do I go from here?
I may be able to go up another step or 2
No flattened primers, primer flow, ejector swipes or heavy bolt lift.

 

[DMW1116]

Realize it’s just a guess in my part and we don’t have the targets for the lower charges, but I’d say go 30.7 to 31 grains. That’s your most stable spread and closest velocity. If I’m way off hopefully someone will tell me why and I’ll learn more.

 

[thump_rrr]

Realize it’s just a guess in my part and we don’t have the targets for the lower charges, but I’d say go 30.7 to 31 grains. That’s your most stable spread and closest velocity. If I’m way off hopefully someone will tell me why and I’ll learn more.

Should be there now.
Don’t look at vertical shift since I readjusted during the shooting of the test.

 

[JFrank]

Should be there now.
Don’t look at vertical shift since I readjusted during the shooting of the test.

Point of impact is the most important part, when did you adjust point of aim ?
(The vertical at 31.3 suggest a need for a touch more powder, while 31.6 you appear to be in tune and beyond that at 31.9 you’re leaving the node.) just my impression. It’s tough at short range with that caliber simply because they are so close.

 

[kmw1954]

Should be there now.
Don’t look at vertical shift since I readjusted during the shooting of the test.

When I shoot a test I will shoot sighters to establish POI/POA and correct to dead hold. From there I do not touch the scope adjustments. I want to know and see where the bullets are moving to with each load.

 

[JFrank]

Here’s a ladder I did the other day with essentially the same caliber but at a much greater distance, using one point of aim I’m judging vertical dispersion between charges. I could draw a line through 30.4-30.6 showing almost identical point of impact.
31.0 overlaping 30.8 is also a good spot although a tad larger. I chose to load at 30.5 for confirmation.
Bingo !

 

[DMW1116]

I loaded up the increments between 18.7-19.1. I also loaded 4 rounds at 17.8 to test function in the 16” rifle.

I did a test a while ago with TAC and a 55 grain JSP. Would it be unreasonable to redo this test with this new information but only use two rounds per increment?

 

[JFrank]

Two rounds of each increment can provide enough data but if you’re more comfortable with three then do three. You want good data to make good decisions. Use at least one flag to help interpret conditions. Etc

 

[DMW1116]

Mixed bag on the final practice load. The 16” will run the 17.8 grain load and shoots it pretty well, under 2 MOA. However I don’t get bolt lock until 18.9 grains. I bet it would work fine in a carbine length system. This is a mid-length.

Somewhere near 18.9 was the most stable in the other rifle and group sizes were basically the same and the smallest of the day. Looks like that’s my load. We’re some where near 40 rounds total but that includes several function check groups just to see if the low charges would run. That covers 15 rounds or so, maybe more.

 

[DMW1116]

So, I guess this is how this is supposed to work. I just tested the RMR 69 grain HPBT and SW Match Rifle. I loaded 28 rounds total: 1 sighter, and nine sets of 3 at each charge weight tested. I started a little above the listed max for 223 data, but my rifle is chambered in 5.56, so I'm well below the max for that. 25.3 is max for 223 and max for 5.56 is over 27 grains (yikes). I used 0.3 grain increments and loaded down from 25.6 grains to 23.2. My scope was already close, so I shot the one sighter, dialed down 2" and shot the test charges, all at 100 yards. Loads 5 and 6 were the closest to each other. I want to graph them to have a visual, but it looks like my load is between 24.4 and 24.7 grains. Group locations were bouncing around below that, above and below the POA. These two were very close, and at 25 grains and above the groups kind of went to pieces. Of the 9 groups, 5 were 1" or less. The upper charges had considerably higher POI than the others and weren't even that close to each other. They also blew up to about 2" or more. I have about half my order left of RMR 69 grain bullets, so I'll load a couple of magazines worth at 24.6 and consider this run to be a success.

 

[JFrank]

Got a picture of the target ?

 

[DMW1116]

Boy, do I. I'm at work now. I'll post them when I get home. It's actually two targets. I haven't gotten the Sharpie trick to work yet, so I found some sighter targets at the local hardware store that work well for this type of thing. I used them on the Tactical Rifle practice load too.

 

[DMW1116]

Below are the targets. Group I starts at 23.2 grains and group IX is 25.6 grains. They all shot fine until the 25.3 group. Now that I think about it I also changed primers. All the previous testing was done with CCI #41 and these are CCI 400.

ETA: the last picture is sideways for some reason.

 

[AJC1]

Below are the targets. Group I starts at 23.2 grains and group IX is 25.6 grains. They all shot fine until the 25.3 group. Now that I think about it I also changed primers. All the previous testing was done with CCI #41 and these are CCI 400.

ETA: the last picture is sideways for some reason.

View attachment 1175924View attachment 1175925

I've always used a target like that for testing, but I think I'm going to try and male a linear target for my 5.56 testing to see if I can watch poi shifts with charge.

 

[DMW1116]

I’d like to get the Sharpie thing to work and do it all in one POA. The time I tried was with cast and coated 30-30 bullets. Maybe it just doesn’t work with the Hi-Tech coating. I have to test the 308 Winchester M79 loads I’m working on next weekend. Maybe I’ll try again and see what happens. (They’re M80 clones but I’m going for ~ 100 fps less than real M80).

 

[JFrank]

Below are the targets. Group I starts at 23.2 grains and group IX is 25.6 grains. They all shot fine until the 25.3 group. Now that I think about it I also changed primers. All the previous testing was done with CCI #41 and these are CCI 400.

ETA: the last picture is sideways for some reason.

View attachment 1175924View attachment 1175925

Looking pretty good’ interpreting these targets, I would focus on 4-5-6 for a reshoot in smaller…perhaps .2 increments while observing repeatability and point of impact stability. I don’t see any wind direction or speed notes on the targets ?

 

[DMW1116]

I didn’t take those but while I was shooting it was pretty calm. My stand is just pvc with cardboard to hold the targets. There wasn’t enough wind to move it visibly even through the spotting scope (20x setting). Estimated velocity is 2675 but I don’t have a chronograph to get actual readings.

 

[DMW1116]

I need to graph them and see what that looks like. I did that on the 55 grain practice load. 17.7 and 17.9 grains were pretty close but 18.7-18.9 snuck in there too. Both ranges shot pretty good for 55 grain FMJ. When I graphed them the upper range was closer together and the lower range wouldn’t cycle my mid-length system rifle, so the decision was pretty clear.

I’ll probably confirm at 24.6 or a heavy 24.5. If that shoots worth anything I’ll be happy. I was prepared to settle for anything under 1.75”. This is from my Discount Marksman Rifle, which is basically a 16” nitride barrel kit from PSA with a fixed stock to replace the adjustable one.

 

[LiveLife]

Discount Marksman Rifle

Is that lower priced version of Designated Marksman Rifle?

 

[DMW1116]

Yep. Stripped lower on sale, lower build kit on sale a month later, and 16” nitride upper on sale 3 months later. I didn’t get it free but I Johnny Cashed the tar out of it.

I’m working on an SPR (Special Poverty Rifle) now. I’m planning for an 18” barrel attached to a blem stripped lower and factory demo stripped upper. The LPK was on the Daily Deals at PSA.