Limited Component Load Development

[JFrank]

So Imr 4064 did great in your 308 but you’re not using it , instead you’re using a powder that doesn’t shoot as well because it cost less. This doesn’t make any sense to me so I guess you’ll get what you paid for.

 

[DMW1116]

I don’t know how well it would shoot as I didn’t do a full load work up. I tried a lower power load aiming for around 2600 fps and it shot better than TAC and AR Plus sample loads. I suspect the bullet is the limiting factor, not the powder. If I was shooting 155 grain match bullets I’d probably stick with 4064. However I’m down to half a pound and haven’t seen any locally in months. I’m saving that for the Speer match load.

Some of the groups of AR Plus shot better than the one test of IMR 4064, but that’s why I’m in this thread. One group doesn’t tell the whole tale.

 

[Nature Boy]

The bullet is the 150 grain Hornady FMJ

That’s likely a large part of the inconsistency. These aren’t target bullets and are not much more than average range fodder

 

[DMW1116]

I don’t really expect them to shoot much better. I’ll probably load them between loads two and three and call it a day. There isn’t really any need to push them faster and they won’t beat up my brass as they are.

 

[DMW1116]

I went ahead and tested the last three loads. Charges 8 and 9 shot pretty close but they were definitely higher in pressure than I want. I’ll split the difference between charges 2 and 4 and call it good.

I didn’t put the Match Rifle 223 loads together yet. I plan to do those next weekend. I might try some 30-30 cast loads too but my range trips are generally consumed doing one test series.

 

[DMW1116]

My 165 grain cast load was somewhat disappointing and may require an actual load test, not just “load at the minimum and hope for the best”.

However, I did load the last of my test charges with the RMR bullet. I went from 24.2 to 24.8 in 0.2 grain increments. I also have them color coded so hopefully that will work out well. Red, black, and green should be discernible on notebook paper.

 

[JFrank]

My 165 grain cast load was somewhat disappointing and may require an actual load test, not just “load at the minimum and hope for the best”.

Minimum has never performed well for me. I really don’t expect a load to shoot without doing a charge ladder.

 

[DMW1116]

Since I was planning to use the 165 grain load in my 30-30, I originally did testing at 50 yards with a Williams peep sight. That was inconclusive but the minimum charge shot pretty well. After mounting a scope on the 30-30, I realized I can’t shoot well enough with iron sights to really tell much difference unless I am very careful about the target configuration, which I wasn’t. I was careful during testing of my 135 grain load and it shoots pretty well. So now I’ll have to go back and see how things go with some of the heavier bullets. I should have known better, but now I do for sure.

 

[DMW1116]

I’m also happy to report the markers worked well for the final Match Rifle/RMR load test. Based on the 0.2 grain increment testing today, the upper end near 24.6-24.8 is where I need to be. The green and unmarked shots were basically the same, at least to my eye. Note this is turned sideways.

 

[JFrank]

You mentioned the picture being sideways, in the correct orientation, would the-red dotbe on the lower right ? Could you add a charge weight for each color as shot?
Thx

 

[DMW1116]

Here is a better picture with the charge weights and proper orientation. I didn’t actually mark the highest charge weight projectiles. I used blue for those on the target because it was the only color I had left in my range bag. It looks a bit soggy because I used some 91% alcohol to bring up the colors.

 

[JFrank]

Black looks pretty good, did you recall a light wind from 8:00 ?

 

[DMW1116]

No. It was very calm. We had rain last night and there was basically no wind.

 

[DMW1116]

The groups seem to keep moving right as charge increases until the highest charge, where it stops.

 

[DMW1116]

Black looks pretty good, did you recall a light wind from 8:00 ?

I thought the dropped round of the black group would take it out of contention? If not, that’s a wide window for charge weight.

Realistically any of those are fine for me. During coarse testing with bigger charge jumps, 24.6 was between the two closest groups in terms of position relative to aiming point. I think I’ll go with 24.7 and call it good. With my scale and powder measure that means I’ll be bouncing between 24.5 and 24.8 anyway.

 

[JFrank]

If your scale is varying weight as much as 3/10 of a grain ~approx (18 kernels of powder), you’ll see quite a difference in that small of a case and should get that solved. .1 is preferred

Personally I see red and green as the same point of impact with black right in the middle of those two charges but if you scale if off that far you’re test may not be valid.

 

[DMW1116]

I haven’t run this powder through my powder measure yet. For ball powders it generally holds the desired charge +\- 0.1 grains. That is for stuff like H335, CFE 223, and AR Plus. I suspect it will do the same for this powder. Flattened ball powders like W231 and HS6 aren’t as consistent, but those aren’t what I’m using for this. For my scale I think I’ll have to accept I need glasses to read it consistently.

For now this load shoots about as well as my IMR 4064 load using Hornady 75 grain HPBT bullets. I’ll load a magazine worth and try some longer strings out to 200 yards.

 

[DMW1116]

Sure’
Do ladders using two shots of each increment whether powder, neck tension, seating, Primers or whatever you need to look at can be done with a ladder and small samples.

In your test for the bushing in the first picture, which would be the load range you'd choose based on the shot placement? I think I'm reading something wrong.

 

[JFrank]

I actually looked at this a couple times, on the right target the overlap of 31.0 grains should be the upper edge of that ladder and 30.5 being the bottom. Reshot 30.9 & 30.5 both shot very well so I’ll start work with that node.

 

[DMW1116]

After trying what I thought was a good cast load in my 30-30, I had to go back and try again. I started at 15 grains of H335 and went up to 16.2 for an estimated velocity range of 1410 to 1450 fps. The marker ink does work on the Hi-Tech coated bullets. If I were very picky I’d keep going up but I’m quite content with the results at 16 and 16.2 grains. They stacked right on top of each other. I had to flip the paper over to the back to get the ink to show where the bullets hit my aiming sticker.

 

[JFrank]

Looks good ‘

 

[OS/N]

What alloy and lube are you using in the 30-30 and how many fps?

In general I perfer HB GC 170 FP with lyman moly lube. This seems to give the best groups for me at around 2250+/- FPS. Lyman #2 performs well also but groups open a little. I use a 20" 94 late 60s lever gun. I usually see around 1" groups at 50 yards which is better than typical factoy ammo in this gun. I have loaded 30-31, W748, IMR4895, A2230, and AR+ and all shoot about the same when worked up to the same pressure -they just vary in speed a little. Its hard to beat a single base powder if you have varying temps in the same loads.

I have an old weaver 4x side scope for this rifle (same age as rifle) but its stored and I prefer irons because the rifle just handles and carrys so much easier (in a scabbard or on the shoulder w/o a sling).

 

[DMW1116]

These are reduced target loads or maybe small game loads. It’s a Missouri Bullet Company 165 grain White Tail #4 sized at 0.311 for Marlin microgroove barrels. These are also Hi-tech coated, so they don’t have lube.

Estimated velocity is about 1450 fps for these. I’ve pushed them as high as 1800 without leading issues. I have not ventured down the gas check road as I don’t cast my own bullets and buying gas checked ones is basically the same cost as jacketed. These are target/practice rounds so I try to spread the powder as thin as possible. I have one more round of tests with this bullet and W231 powder and LPP for a subsonic load. That will be as cheap as I can make rounds with this bullet.

 

[DMW1116]

Nothing really jumped out at me in this test with W231. I’ll probably say the lower 2-3 charge weights are close and be done. My preferred load for accuracy will be the H335 load, even if it does cost a bit more. The preferred one for target practice is the Acme/W231 load. It’s about a dime cheaper per shot and I already have 500 LPP for the purpose.

There is a chance I pulled the purple shot low. If so, orange and purple look good to me. I’d have to test again to be sure though.

 

[AJC1]

My 165 grain cast load was somewhat disappointing and may require an actual load test, not just “load at the minimum and hope for the best”.

However, I did load the last of my test charges with the RMR bullet. I went from 24.2 to 24.8 in 0.2 grain increments. I also have them color coded so hopefully that will work out well. Red, black, and green should be discernible on notebook pap

Which powder? In tac for 556 it goes a lot higher in the western manual. 24.0-24.2 was good for me in my match rifle and AR. Still testing the mini but that's not exactly a high performance machine.