Llama .45 question

[HogManMagnum]

i know llama pistols have a bad rep but im looking at a beautifull custom job at a local store. i dont have the serial but its a model IX-A, which from my research apparently was produced from 1954-1976.

so my question is simple: were those good years for llama quality and/or was that one of llama's better models?

its selling for $325, which means $300, and it would only be an occasional plinker & range gun. im willing to take my chances with this pretty thing but id like to know if anyone has any hard info about llama quality with that model over those years

thanx and good shooting

 

[Thernlund]

Handle it, inspect it, if it checks out, buy it.

I have a Llama .45 that is a great gun. Accurate and reliable.

Next to a Walther P22


-T.

 

[Treo]

If you're going to buy no matter what go ahead and buy it.

Magazines are not interchangeable W/ a 1911 , niether are most parts.

There is no such thing as a good year for a Llama.

 

[HogManMagnum]

thanx, Thernlund, i was going to give a good look over regardless but i what i really wanted to hear was feedback on that specific model

Treo, from what ive read there are some llamas that do take standard 1911 mags and a few other 1911 parts. also, there must be a good year or a good model for llama or there wouldnt be people like Thernlund saying how great their llamas are. do u have any firsthand experience with llamas or do u only have heresay and speculation to contribute?

 

[Thernlund]

Magazines are not interchangeable W/ a 1911 , niether are most parts.

Eh? How'd ya figure that?

Mine takes all manner of 1911 mags and parts.


-T.


EDIT: I did see the model HogMan. I was only speaking to Llamas rep. I dunno about others. Maybe I'm special. But my Llama is a good gun. Very solid and seems decently made.

 

[Thernlund]

Apparently, as it pertains to this particular model (the IX-A), Treo is right. First-hand experience in this thread...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=338336

My apologies Treo.


-T.

 

[HogManMagnum]

Thernlund, where in that thread did u see someone say specifically that the IX-A does not take 1911 mags? i read all the posts and didnt see it specifically stated.

i have also read a parts interchangability list on the 1911 forums that states the IX-A should accept 1911 mags.

i think the reason for this confusion is the same reason i started this thread in the first place- since most llamas floating around out there are very old and have had many owners, the orignal boxes and paperwork is long gone, so most llama owners dont know which model they have or had.

not all llama .45s are the same, some are closer copies of the M1911 than others, so some models take the mags and some dont, which is why im specifically asking for anyone with info on the IX-A model

 

[Treo]

do u have any firsthand experience with llamas or do u only have heresay and speculation to contribute?

When I first started shooting I bought 3 Llamas ( Gabilondo Ý Victoria), a .32, a 9 mm and a .45 the older Llamas apparently had no model designations so I'm unsure of the exact models.

Ammoclip.com offers this warning

A note: Older Spanish guns are notorious for minor dimensional variations. Even if you get the correct factory made magazine for the gun it may still need fitting. The magazine catch slot is generally the biggest problem with magazines in the guns and may need to be adjusted a very slight amount.

IOW they couldn't even hold a close enough tolerance on a mass produced gun to guarantee that a factory mag ( list price 67.50$ ea. last time I checked) would fit.

My first hand experience W/ Llama is that the are , essentially , Spanish Lorcins. They are made from cheap, soft pot metal & quality control was (obviously) nonexistant in the plant.

Even the people that say they got a good one ( no offense) are shooting a pot metal gun that is likely to blow up in their face one day. (Again first hand expreience)

If you really want input, save another hundred dollars and buy an RIA.

If , as I said earlier, you intend to buy the gun no matter what (they go for around 200.00$ here) , go buy it.

Make sure you give us a range report in oh, 6 months


Thernlund, No worries

 

[Bozo]

I have a llama 45, it has had many rounds thru it, I bought it 2nd hand off a guy who just needed some quick cash. I have no idea how many rounds. I certainly would not expect it to compete with major brands but it feeds all my reloads I put thru it. Also, I am not so sure I would pay $300 for a used one, that does seem a bit much.

 

[HogManMagnum]

Treo, if i do decide to buy it, trust me, i will be back and post several range reports. you say "the vast majority of Llamas are crap you may get a good one" but if they are that horrible then why are there so many people out there that have 1000+ rds through their guns with no complaints? check out the llama section at m1911.org

to be fair, i must state that i already have several handguns, this will only be an occasional plinker and a gun to tinker with. as a first gun or main HD/SD gun i would recommend something with a better track record just to be safe.

i sometimes wonder how much of llamas bad rep could be due to lack of maintnence or fear or dislike of DIY repairs... i keep my guns clean and im not scared to take it apart and do some parts swapping and fix it myself

as far as RIA, i cant stand that bigass logo they insiste on engraving on the slide. its a major turn off, same applies to taurus

 

[firemt04]

I bought a Llama .45 about a month back and have put about 500 rounds through it with no problems at all. And I have found a few after market 1911 mags that work in it without flaws.

 

[Treo]

but if they are that horrible then why are there so many people out there that have 1000+ rds through their guns with no complaints?

Search right here and see how many people have had them blow up in their face

 

[robert garner]

I can only speak of one,

Mother got one for Dad in the early 70's. Adjustable sights, sight rib , beautiful bluing! It was lighter than a Colt, and was exceptionally accurate! Sometimes,
just sometimes, you could ocassionally get three rounds down range. however
the first shot was guaranteed!
robert

 

[Thernlund]

Even the people that say they got a good one ( no offense) are shooting a pot metal gun that is likely to blow up in their face one day.

Mine's not made of pot metal. But mine was made in the late 90's. So that may be the difference.


-T.

 

[dartman]

Good Llama ?

I had a Llama about ten years ago. But mine was a model IX-D. It appeared to be a copy of the early Para-Ord P-13. 12 rounds in the mag and one in the chamber. It would even take the early mags. I had no real problems other than what all "inexpensive" 1911 pattern pistols have. It was a fun gun. I put at least 1000 rounds thru it, and mine never exploded. My main complaint was hammer bite. But $300.00 sounds high considering the price of other well known brands.

 

[Treo]

Mine's not made of pot metal. But mine was made in the late 90's. So that may be the difference

In the late 90s Gabilondo was on the way out. As a last ditch effort to save the company they hired some gunsmiths that actually knew what the were doing and produced some ok guns. Sorry, that's the highest praise I can give them.

DW actually owns a late 90s .380 Micro Max it's not a bad gun but it looks cheap, it feels rough and gritty when you rack the slide. I almost refused to allow her to buy it (180.00 $ LNIB w/ 2 magazines & all original paperwork) but, you know the rules, the wife picks her own gun.

As to the potmetal even if your gun isn't the metal is still soft.

I invite you to test this by

1. clearing the weapon
2. cocking the weapon
3. engaging the safety
4. and pulling the trigger W/ normal force.

 

[Mad Magyar]

The pistol pictured by Thernlund is not an IXA evident by not having the ventilated rib for one thing. It does not take 1911 mags....The one pictured below is an IXA with a slight grip alteration...Llama makes the lousiest grips with their plain, smooth, brown wood...

 

[Thernlund]

The pistol pictured by Thernlund is not an IXA evident by not having the ventilated rib for one thing.

That's right. It's a MAX-I L/F. I was only speaking to the bad rep. Although I only have experience with one, it's a good one.

As to the potmetal even if your gun isn't the metal is still soft.

I invite you to test this by

1. clearing the weapon
2. cocking the weapon
3. engaging the safety
4. and pulling the trigger W/ normal force.

Ok. I went and got it and did this. I even cranked on the trigger pretty hard. Nothing happened. What was supposed to happen?


-T.

 

[Treo]

Mine snapped and fired

 

[Steve C]

On a safety note: The Llama's did not have an inertial firing pin like the Colts and most other clones. With the hammer down the firing pin would extend past the bolt face and on rest the primer if a round was chambered. This could result in an accidental discharge if the hammer was struck hard when in the down position. Not sure if this is still the case but check for this by locking back the slide and pushing the firing pin flush with the hammer shield to observe if the firing pin protrudes. If it does, do not keep this pistol with round chambered and hammer down as a safe carry or storage condition.

 

[KodeFore]

I have an older 11ama 45, until recently this was my least favorite gun. Some one gave me a box Winchester Self Defence HP Ammo so I took my chances and gave it a try. I wasn't even sure HP would even feed. Was ever surprised I fired it, not only did it feed just fine, suddenly it was more accurate than my issue G22. Until I can afford a real 1911, this thing will do.

 

[Mad Magyar]

. I wasn't even sure HP would even feed. Was ever surprised I fired it, not only did it feed just fine, suddenly it was more accurate than my issue G22.

It's a point I was going to make on my post, on how well it accepts various ammo. I've found that so many people have their minds made up on Llamas as being a basic POS, that I don't say much about them anymore. All you get is "a hit or miss" or "you get what you pay for" or "this model range years were good but.....". Hell, many pistols brands are that way.....

 

[Treo]

My issue W/ Llama isn't the quality per sé, it was the fact that when mine did malfunction it did so in a manner that was totally unsafe. It literally fell apart in my hands while firing.

I haven't heard that the guy I gave it to has had any problems W/ it and he's had it 15 years.
I wouldn't take it back if he paid me

My Llama 9 wouldn't take factory mags ( list price 47.50 ea) until I pulled some kind of shim out of the magazine well, the magazine would jam, and I mean JAM halfway out.

The company went out of business based on their reputation for quality ( or lack thereof), it wasn't some dark world wide conspiracy of Llama hating Rothchilds and the Illuminati. They went under because they make crappy guns.

Given that information and my personal experience W/ them, I wouldn't spend a dime on one. And I couldn't in good conscience reccomend one

 

[gb6491]

The company went out of business based on their reputation for quality ( or lack thereof), it wasn't some dark world wide conspiracy of Llama hating Rothchilds and the Illuminati. They went under because they make crappy guns.

Hi,
Do you have any references about why they went out of business? The only source I've found just says: "Gabilondo Llama y Cia SA, as a result of financial difficulties filed for bankruptcy and closed its doors in 1999"

They are made from cheap, soft pot metal & quality control was (obviously) nonexistant in the plant.

Were your pistols made entirely of "pot metal" or just certain parts? I ask because I've never seen the slide of a locking breech pistol (assuming your 45 was similar to those posted in this thread), made of it.

As to the potmetal even if your gun isn't the metal is still soft.

How do you know that? Was some type of testing done?

Mine snapped and fired

I had the safety on a Walther TPH snap some years ago; fortunately it didn't fire, but it was, as you know, disconcerting.

Regards,
Greg

 

[Treo]

Hi,
Do you have any references about why they went out of business?

Only general reading on the internet and a book my wife got from the library. Your source BTW is Wikipedia I could log in and make it say word for word what I posted, if I wanted.