Load Data

[kcofohio]

As has been stated, each individual is responsible for their own safety. With that being said.....

When I started reloading 10 years ago, I began with mostly bullets and powders that aren't referenced in many manuals. Namely plated and cast. Missouri bullets seemed generally different than what Lyman's publishes. So I did much searching online to get an idea of good starting points. Then cross referenced to various published sources. With so many newer powders out there and publishers haven't had the chance to catch up with data.
And contacting the bullet maker about a newer bullet doesn't always get you an answer.

When new, I jumped at the chance to buy a 8 lb. jug of shotgun powder. International, Universal, what's the difference.
Well, it turns out a big difference. I got the International, as it turns out, Hodgdon quit supporting its' use in handguns, because it could be spiky. I searched the internet forums to find someone using it and their experience. I found data, but I found more people stating that it was best not to use International in handguns. So the powder got sold to a shotgun guy.

So if someone ask about powder, bullet, primer, in a cartridge combination. It is on them to be diligent in their search.

 

[armydog]

Many suppliers of reloading components provide excellent and fast load advice via email.

That's true in my case. I've contacted several. To my surprise recently, one of them told me they didn't have load data published yet for two newer projectiles and told me to go with load data for similar projectiles. They verified my plan to begin with but I at least did my due diligence by contacting them first.

 

[Bazoo]

I load cast bullets. Try finding data for lee cast bullets without using the internet. Lyman 4th cast handbook has a few references. I could always use a similar bullet of similar weight. But it's much easier to see what others are doing and cross reference it best I can.

Not to mention, loading 44 special at above book pressures of 15,500psi. My flattop blackhawk will handle pressures up to 25,000psi. No manual shows data over 15,500psi. So I guess I could just play it safe and never explore the +p 44 special loads that everyone else enjoys. I did my research on both the guns, and their use with heavy loads, and then the loads. I got handloader 236 and 260 covering my gun and intended load levels. I researched what others was using and started my own journey.

Using loads from online blindly is not a good idea. But checking and cross referencing that info and using it causiously is not bad advice.

 

[mdi]

"Instant gratification", computer based society. "Don't think, don't research, don't look in a book" thinking, just ask a bunch of anonymous screen names. Way too many new reloaders use a forum for their main source of info from "how to clean brass" to load data, to "is it OK to use XXX primers instead of YYY primers?". I'd bet there are a lot more squibs, ruined guns, and maybe injuries than what we see on forums because a newer reloader used "internet wisdom" instead of openining a book...

 

[JFrank]

I don’t understand why people come to an Internet forum first when looking for load data.
ALL of the powder manufacturers have load data available. The bullet makers suggest COAL for their bullets.
Granted there are some specific bullets not listed in the powder mfr data, but almost always there is one of similar construction and weight.
Trusting load data from some random net geek you have not vetted personally is reckless and foolhardy. Asking another random net geek is not a good way to vet someone.
If you do not understand the mfr data this may be a good place to get someone to explain it to you but I wouldn’t go much past that.
Stay safe guys.

You have touched on an interesting subject, load data no matter where it comes from should be at best considered a( qualified load for that firearm and only to taken as reference). My barrel may be faster and reach pressure sooner or my chamber is most likely different to a degree. We always start lower and work up.
These forums are intended to share information including load data.

 

[Atavar]

You have touched on an interesting subject, load data no matter where it comes from should be at best considered a( qualified load for that firearm and only to taken as reference). My barrel may be faster and reach pressure sooner or my chamber is most likely different to a degree. We always start lower and work up.
These forums are intended to share information including load data.

Agreed, and the data is just that. And the data is only as good as it’s source.
I enjoy data that I get from the forums, but I don’t automatically grant it the same level of veracity as mfr data.

 

[mdi]

I load cast bullets. Try finding data for lee cast bullets without using the internet. Lyman 4th cast handbook has a few references. I could always use a similar bullet of similar weight. But it's much easier to see what others are doing and cross reference it best I can.

Not to mention, loading 44 special at above book pressures of 15,500psi. My flattop blackhawk will handle pressures up to 25,000psi. No manual shows data over 15,500psi. So I guess I could just play it safe and never explore the +p 44 special loads that everyone else enjoys. I did my research on both the guns, and their use with heavy loads, and then the loads. I got handloader 236 and 260 covering my gun and intended load levels. I researched what others was using and started my own journey.

Using loads from online blindly is not a good idea. But checking and cross referencing that info and using it causiously is not bad advice.

It is doubtful that you will find exacting load data for many cast bullets (most casters know how to find loads in Lyman's or other cast bullet manuals of equal weight bullets and do a load workup). Much of ,as often as not, home cast bullets wil be different weight than those tested in a manual so you won't be getting exacting data. (I have been using Lee molds for over 30 years and have successfully reloaded thousands, no problems finding data). Seeing/using "what others have done" can be dangerous, like getting surgery info from a heart surgery patient rather than a Heart Surgeon. Do the "others" have the credentials of the lab tech? Do the "others" have the equipment/resources available to the tech testing for a major powder or bullet manfacturer?

Finding load data for a higher velocity than liste in a manual This is where experienced reloaders use a "Load Work Up". But first one needs to think; do some research on the gun and components used and pressure "signs". I've had no trouble finding "hot" or +P loads for my 44 Special loads.

The single most important safety measure and method of reloading is Think! Learn to think and use reliable texts and manuals (also available on line). I was able to find safe info when I started with my first Lee Loader in 1969, waaaaay pre-web/reloading forrum.This has worked for me for over 40 years (one squib and no Kaboom and a lot of fun, safe, accurate handloads)...

 

[Bazoo]

I'm in the process of reading the speer 15 manual now. I've read a dozen previous to this. I have two more I need to read next. I think the speer 6 and 8.
I've read speer 10, Hornady 2, Lyman 45,46,47,48,49, cast 1,2,3,4, shotshell handbook 5, RCBS cast manual, lee 2, amoung a few others including Phil sharpes book.

I want Pet Loads, and speer 2,4, all the speers. Handloader 312 for the 44 spl data.

The point is, reading manuals furthers your reloading knowledge, and to a degree helps to decipher the internet data you come across.

When I'm researching a new cartridge, bullet, powder, I keep a note pad and record data and info, including which forum and poster left it. I cross reference it with books and sometimes with other reloaders.

An example would be when I was researching the RCBS 45-201-SWC in 45 auto. I seen many references to 5.0 bullseye. And it was in my book. I seen some as light as 4.0. I seen several in between. After testing I settled on 4.6 as pleasant and accurate in my gun. This for a common bullet in a common cartridge with a common powder. I quickly filled a page with notes on seating depth, powder, top punch, history.

 

[higgite]

Deleted by author

 

[JFrank]

Agreed, and the data is just that. And the data is only as good as it’s source.
I enjoy data that I get from the forums, but I don’t automatically grant it the same level of veracity as mfr data.

It is also interesting how many reloaders look for quick loads and test until they stumble across something without really knowing how they got there or how to correct a tendency that hopefully comes with actual load development.
What position is most important , know that it shoots small that day or knowing why ?

 

[WrongHanded]

Agreed, and the data is just that. And the data is only as good as it’s source.
I enjoy data that I get from the forums, but I don’t automatically grant it the same level of veracity as mfr data.

It's a funny thing the internet. I don't believe I'd know a single member of the forum if I bumped into them at a gun range. Then again, perhaps there are some members here that I converse with regularly, who quietly know exactly who I am in real life, and I just have not connected the dots on my end.

However, after discussing reloading with some on this forum for several years, I'd say many of us know each other well enough to have a good idea of who we can or cannot trust to present safe data. And who's in a grey area. That will be different for each individual of course.

Anonymity certainly exists. But we're far from being strangers. Many of us are here on a daily basis, reading even if not posting.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I get aggravated when some one ask for data often . When i do feel like replying. I suggest they get some loading books. The more the better. That way you can cross reference. And check to see what folks do post to verify. It's always best to double check. I miss typed a load about 45 colt loads. Thankfully a moderator caught it and deleted it. Anyone can make a mistake when posting. So always check. I like having books at my finger tips. Also no one book has all the recipes available too. I have an old Hodgedon book. It list other powders than their own powders. It has stuff not in other books. I was going to get rid of it. Then i discovered how much of an asset to have in my library. After i took a good look at the data.

 

[Soonerpesek]

THR is just what it says it is......A forum for firearm enthusiasts, handloaders, collectors, ect,ect.......

It is NOT a manual, or set of unwavering rules, or specific guidelines to be adhered to......

It is a place where we can share wisdom, experience, and common knowledge with each other...

I don't claim to have more wisdom or experience than anyone else, I just know a few things....( very few...)

But I sure do appreciated a lot of the shared knowledge , experience, and wisdom from ALOT of the members here,
as there are many with admired traits and skills....

Do I think that the posts of such members are the LAW.....absolutely NOT, but there is a lot to be gained from them...

Just use this forum for what it is intended .....to be used at your discretion.....

 

[stillquietvoice]

It's a funny thing the internet. I don't believe I'd know a single member of the forum if I bumped into them at a gun range. Then again, perhaps there are some members here that I converse with regularly, who quietly know exactly who I am in real life, and I just have not connected the dots on my end.

However, after discussing reloading with some on this forum for several years, I'd say many of us know each other well enough to have a good idea of who we can or cannot trust to present safe data. And who's in a grey area. That will be different for each individual of course.

Very true indeed. Myself I share my experience, occasionally loads that I have found that work well in my guns, but also read and research loads posted.

There are quite a few here that shoot long range competitions their load data is valuable, others compete with m1 garands or other milsurps where their data is safe and accurate for those guns. Plus a great place to start off if loading for your own m1a, garand, 03 Springfield...... otherwise you could take data from Manuel's run up to a max load and bend an op rod, blame the data and do it again.

Forum data needs to be checked, against other data points and worked to safe levels in your specific firearm.

Myself I punch a lot of paper and steel plates but my goal is to produce theost accurate rounds for the purpose of hunting. All my load development is for use on game. As I don't compete anymore, there is a huge advantage to doing multiple load work up for times of scarcity, like now I still have loads to hunt with several with powders different than most used powders.

 

[Shooterbob]

I’m pretty sure he just called us net geeks a few times! Get it together I’m a gun geek ! O and a reloading geek hunting geek! And you are posting on an Internet forum so you may be a net geek . Have a wonderful evening all .Bob

 

[Atavar]

It could have been worse. I might have referenced hng’s.

 

[Howland937]

Agreed, and the data is just that. And the data is only as good as it’s source.

Manuals occasionally have misprints and/or typos. Most of us (hopefully all of us) cross reference, check and re-check. I'd much prefer a person ask if they're not sure. I'd rather sift through the "load data" and "what am I doing wrong?" threads than read one about a catastrophic failure. Maybe I'm just getting more placid in my old age though. When my kid asks how to do something, he gets the same answer. "I won't do it for you, but I'll help you learn how".

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It could have been worse. I might have referenced hng’s.

Hungs??

If I need to know a good powder for a new-to-me cartridge, I ask. Load’s and COAL’s and pages of velocity graphs don’t mean much. Your gun’s not my gun. I can figure out case fill and look up published data. What the loading manuals don’t say is what wasn’t tested or why. There’s some pretty weighty opinions around here. It’d be kinda dumb not to ask questions. And even more dumb to take any of them as more than an opinion. Dumbest of all is to ignore the answers completely. Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Atavar]

I hear ya

 

[mdi]

I get aggravated when some one ask for data often . When i do feel like replying. I suggest they get some loading books. The more the better.

While I haven't seen this answer in a while, quite often a "I need a load for my 38..." type question is answered with "What does your manual say?". Seems like forum menbers are "kinder" to dumb questions today...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

While I haven't seen this answer in a while, quite often a "I need a load for my 38..." type question is answered with "What does your manual say?". Seems like forum menbers are "kinder" to dumb questions today...

Well, to be honest, coming to as reloading forum with, "I need a load for my .38." is kind of like walking into a bookstore and saying, "I need a book." It's not going to be a positive experience.
Now, coming to a reloading forum with, "I found a box of USAF-stamped M41 .38Spl and thought it was the bee's knees. I want to try and replicate that load. Has anyone ever done that and can you share your data?" is more like it.
Asking stupid questions is expected. Asking for the wisdom of the Universe while standing on one foot is foolish.

 

[kmw1954]

Well, to be honest, coming to as reloading forum with, "I need a load for my .38." is kind of like walking into a bookstore and saying, "I need a book." It's not going to be a positive experience..

So how or why is that different than me coming in and asking, I just purchased a 243 rifle and have never loaded for it, What works?
That is a general question, not looking for an actual load, just information as to what actually works, what does not work. Sure I can look in any of the books or websites and get data but that is not going to tell me where would be the best place to start.

I have actually asked that question and actually did get the response, "What does the book say!". Was very helpful.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

So how or why is that different than me coming in and asking, I just purchased a 243 rifle and have never loaded for it, What works?
That is a general question, not looking for an actual load, just information as to what actually works, what does not work. Sure I can look in any of the books or websites and get data but that is not going to tell me where would be the best place to start.

I have actually asked that question and actually did get the response, "What does the book say!". Was very helpful.

My first response to that kind of question - I've got this rifle, now whut? - has always been, and will always be, what do you want it to do? Kill a deer, mow the lawn, put holes in paper? How big a piece of paper? Do you want all of the holes in one piece of paper or will you happy if they are spread across a few pieces of paper? How big a deer? How far away?... Starting with book loads is always good but when I decided to start loading for .40S&W a couple years back I came here and asked what bullet weights and which powders everyone preferred/worked best for informal target shooting/plinking. I got lots of good answers. I'd also read threads on loading .40S&W and made notes for myself to compare to book data before asking. It helps to try and answer the question yourself first. Some folks don't like learning or working for answers and it shows. And no I'm not implying anything or pointing fingers so let's not bother starting a bunch of pi44isng contests.

 

[kmw1954]

And here is another prime example of answers that are given at times. Ask a general question and get the Well I can't answer that unless I know exactly what your intentions/uses are or will be. Or as some have asked, What gun? What difference does that make when it was stated it is a 24" barrel with a 1:10 twist. The gun make has no bearing on the question.

 

[Single action shooter]

i walked into a now closed gun store that handled alot of reloading supplies...i was just getting into reloading 45lc and was looking at powders an employee walked over to offer help so i asked what would be a good powder to start with. he went into a hour long speech about how people shouldnt reload who dont know what they are doing and the dangers and whatnot talking down to me so i left and went home and searched thr for 45lc plinking loads went back and bought the pound of trailboss that i had in my hand when the guy walked up to me and have happily been enjoying 45lc ever since so when people ask questions i try to actually be helpful not tell them to get off my lawn. i realize the same questions get old but if your not gonna be helpful why take the time to respond at all