Lock free S&W 642's on the way

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Too bad S&W can't seem to remove it's head from it's orifice. If you can sell more guns by making them lock free, or offering that idiotic lock as an option, why not do it?

My new lock free 642 is the first new product I purchased from S&W since 2000. I guess it is the last new S&W product I will purchase for several more years. Oh well, screw them.
 
Sorry to hear the reply from Smith. This was also my first purchase of a new Smith since the lock. For a short time I had visions of a new N frame.


Sigh......
 
Write him back. Tell him that we will not buy any lock guns. If he wants to follow the law (DC vs. Heller). Get with it Mr. No damned locks!
 
Thank you for taking time to write. We appreciate the feedback. The Model 642 is a special run only. We had some frame in our inventory that were the old style. We will continue to manufacture the revolver line with
the internal lock.

Thank you
kf

MOST UNFORTUNATE.
 
Just so everyone understands Smith and Wessson's stand. I came home to open my email with the exact same message....

Thank you for taking the time to write.
We appreciate the feedback.
We will continue to include the internal lock
on our revolver line. The Model 642 was a special
run only.

kf

Looks like they "got the script down" for email responses..

So how about a little support...Go to Smith and Wesson website and express your desires for lock free handguns.

And before anyone feels the need to tell me this does no good, I am fairly sure it falls on deaf ears. But based upon my career in the business world they do keep track of these things. Who knows when the "right person" will take a look and say, now it the time.
 
I have finally decided that I don't really care if they make any more guns without the lock. It's not that I am going to buy anymore with the lock (because I won't), it's because I am having too much fun looking for older Smiths without the lock. If they happen to make more no-lock guns them I'm in, but if not, let the searching continue.
 
OH, do not get me wrong. With a recent purchase of a Model 10 and this 642 I am in the mood to find some more....Maybe I will start the hunt for that 25-2 I miss.
 
I am convinced that even if Smith and Wesson had some idea that they might do away with the lock, they would be foolish to tip their hand by publicly answering queries in that fashion. Except for special runs or test runs (or whatever they are) they would have to sell down inventory before phasing in or announcing a change in policy. They're not going to make their current inventory less desirable, and therefore less valuable, by tipping their hand prematurely. Who would want "lame duck" inventory? I wouldn't. Retrofitting a large inventory would be very expensive. They're sure not going to announce a major "mea culpa" and eat their inventory for lunch. Some people might say they don't keep that much inventory on hand. If that is so, where did 4,000 no-lock 642-1 frames come from? (Oops! Look what we found!) They also have to think of the inventory in their distibutors' pipelines.


KF has been a solid and helpful customer service person for S&W for quite a while and/but she's going to offer whatever official line they tell her to offer. Just like a press secretary. Who knows what the brass is really thinking?
 
Grin

Anybody think it interesting these 4000 "special run" 642's magically appeared by the end the last Tax Rebate checks were going out. :evil:

All I can say that is alot of extra parts to have lying around - or an awfull big special police/overseas order that went south - in time for the last tax checks :scrutiny:
 
Oh well....

Taurus CIA for me, I guess. Yeah, it has a lock - but not one that will render the gun useless if it fails....right? :confused:

Then again, Gary makes a good point. Hmmm..

ETA: I did my part in contacting them, here's my e-mail:

I was disappointed to read from fellow gun enthusiasts that the recent batch of lock-free Model 642s were a one-off and not a sign of either removing the lock or at least making it only an OPTION.

...then again, someone with more business savvy than I pointed out that maybe you just didn't want to reveal it too soon if that WAS the case, as it would cause a devaluation of your current, "lock" guns.

You know, unlike many, I am not bothered a bit JUST by the notion that a gun has an internal lock. There are those that hate the looks, those that hate the concept, and those that hate both. I am not one of those people.

However, while doing some more research into buying a S&W, I literally got nauseous when I learned something that would be a VERY valid reason to hate the lock: That should the lock fail, it would "default" to locked position and thus RENDER THE GUN USELESS.

That would be a great annoyance on the range, but it would be a completely UNACCEPTABLE, potentially FATAL risk to someone like me, who was not in the market for a "target gun" but for a gun to be used for self-defense!

If this is true about your internal lock, I'm honestly baffled as to how you can stay in the gun business! Then again, I was ignorant about that fatal flaw and learned before I bought. Maybe others have not been so informed until AFTER they bought the gun?

I join countless other gun owners in calling on you to either do away with the internal locks altogether or at least make them optional. I go a step further than some by adding that if you MUST have a lock on ALL guns, then I would be willing to buy one if you would just re-work the mechanism so that the gun would "default" to UNLOCKED should the lock ever fail!

I won't be terribly disappointed at a negative response. Again, "business savvy," and I understand that letting us know TOO soon that you're changing the lock situation would hurt sales of the current guns out there on shelves right now. But I do urge you to give what I say strong consideration, as you can only increase your business if you do!

Thank you,
 
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What I don't understand is, why does a revolver deserve the lock but not an autopistol? Am I missing something or do ALL new Smith and Wesson autopistols come with the internal lock? I was thinking just a few do.

If they felt it needed some kind of safety I would have much preferred a Glock style trigger or something. There has to be a better way. If Smith and Wesson wanted to be politically correct they wouldn't be selling assault rifles and pistols with 17rd magazines. It doesn't make sense to me.
 
well i made my mind up not to get a lock free 642 due to the extra money i would have to lay out. Friday i stop at a local gun store to look at shotguns a yearly thing when dove season come close always end up in the field with the old 870 but one day a nice side by side. I look in the handgun case and there was a lock free 642 i asked to look at it and really it looks so nice without the hole, Price was 475.00 ouch. I asked if he would take a trade in and he stated he would so i explain i'm a ccw holder and an LEO and that i was taking my weapon out and unloading it so he could look at it. He okayed that so I did. He took it to the back room came back in a few and told me he would give me 250.00 for it since it was a little rough. so that 225.00 out of pocket and what did he mean rough? It a working gun it's used I check out the new one as I have learnd on this fourm about checking a used revolver and found that when i dry fired it and held the tigger back there was more play in the clyinder then on my"rough" 642 I told him his new 642 was too loose took mine back loaded it place it back under my shirt and left. The lock still bug me some but mostly when I go to the S&W fourm those guys really don't like the lock at all. think i will just not go there anymore and use my "rough" 642 if it ever lock up on me at the range then will rethink the whole thing if it happens on the street well been shot at before and my luck got me out of it guess i'll hope for the best. Of course this all could be sour grapes since i don't have one. to all you people that have one and share picture with us they sure do look nice.

Be safe
 
Lets say S&W relizes that there is a major market for lock free S&W. They are going to wait till the locked versions are low in number before saying anything, as they are not going to put the distributors up the perverbial creek without a paddle.
 
Threads like this always seem to turn into a debate (argument) on the S&W revolver ILS.

While I prefer my personally-owned revolvers to be without internal lock systems, I ordered one of the M&P 340 Centennials because I wanted a J-frame with some of its features.

I've used that J-frame as my off-duty weapon upon occasion, and without fear that the ILS would unintentionally engage were I to need it. :uhoh: :eek: Oh my, I can hear the gasps ... as well as the folks who think that makes me either too gullible & foolish or a "S&W apologist".

I think of myself as neither, but then I would, wouldn't I? :)

I use my M&P as my default 'range' snub, too. I've run a fair amount of rounds through it, using a varying mix of standard pressure, +P and .357 Magnum loads. On some occasions when my hand has become tired of the Magnum loads I've managed to coax a couple of other folks into shooting them through it, testing the performance of the gun and ammunition in their hands. (A couple of the other instructors cringe when I offer them the gun and free Magnum ammunition, knowing the recoil. ;) )

My M&P 340 has yet to exhibit any functioning issues related to the ILS.

My 3 other J-frames lack the ILS, as does the 642-1 I just ordered (to complement my existing 'original' 642-1, which is my favorite Airweight). If these 642-1's hadn't become available when S&W was cleaning out some back-stock of the older frames, I'd have probably ordered one of the new M40's ... partly because of the reintroduction of the nostalgic grip safety design, but also partly because it lacks the ILS.

Given my druthers, I'd always select a revolver without an ILS.

I ordered my M&P 45 without an ILS, too.

I just don't lose any sleep worrying about the ILS in my M&P 340 unintentionally locking when I'm using it.

I've had revolvers 'lock up' on me because of a stubbed DA sear, tolerances which were too tight, powder flakes/grit under the extractor, a high primer, a raised burr on the hand, or other problem, though ...

If asked, I'd offer that I'm happy that these older 642-1 frames were released as a limited production run of guns came out ... and that I had the presence of mind to order one, even though I already own an original one. At least S&W didn't just destroy them or keep them buried.

I'm one of those folks who would like to see the company decide to offer an alternative line of non-ILS models. Unlike the folks among the internet forums who vehemently decries the presence of the ILS, however, I suspect that S&W would continue to find customers who would want to have the option of being able to purchase their revolver with an ILS. There are folks who like it, and they may possibly outnumber those who hate it. Then there are those customers who probably don't care one way or the other.

In another 5, 10 or 15+ years this may become a moot point, too, depending on the consumer safety trends and future 'reasonable' legislation.
 
My objection to the lock is primarily aesthetic; that hole in the frame is just plain ugly. If S&W had used the same system as Taurus, I wouldn't care as much.

I got my first no lock 642 Friday, with number two on the way. :D
 
Nice. Would not have believed it. Kudos to those of you (us) who did "boycott" the hillary hole guns. Now S&W, bring back crush-fit, P&R, and make a 5-shot K or L frame in 10mm with 4.5" bbl. Then we'd really have something. :)
 
M7 P 9

My new M & P 9 does not have a lock. I think it was offered in another model number with a lock feature but mine does not have one. I think Smith just jumped the gun putting the lock on the wheel guns. Lawyers, Lawyers, Lawyers. ought to hang them all.
 
I've never purchased a Smith & Wesson revolver with an IL and never will. My last two Smtih & Wesson purchases, a 37-2 and a 642-1, were both brand new in box revolvers - both are post-lock; one MIM, one post-MIM.
 
I just don't lose any sleep worrying about the ILS in my M&P 340 unintentionally locking when I'm using it.

Any mechanical device is capable of failure. I just like the odds being more in my favor. Quoth Scotty, something to the effect of "the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the works!" :D
 
My M&P 340 has yet to exhibit any functioning issues related to the ILS.
Without the lock, your chances for a lock related stoppage would be zero.
 
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