London terror continued

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rudolf

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The news about them muslim terrorists arrested in London who are suspected of planning to blow up a few planes on their way to the US reminds me of an older thread. There was spaculation by a Newspaper author about some folks maybe mixing a bomb on the toilet during a flight. Now it looks like this was actually an option this time. The original article is no longer available, BTW.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=93834

I also wonder if they planned a mix like the one used in the London subway bombs, which is made from normal household stuff, mostly liquids. One thing to consider when suicide bombers make bombs for immediate use is that they do not need to consider safety. If it explodes while mixing, well that is what they wanted anyway.
 
Yes. I remember that business, too. There was a lot of criticism because the Air Marshals on the plane just liked to hang out in First Class and didn't pay much attention to the very suspicious goings on in the rear section of the plane. The authorities were notified but nobody bothered to meet and interview the men at the plane's destination. They were later supposedly found and turned out to be a Syrian musical group or some such crap. Guess it was valuable training.
 
The reports on CNN sounded a little hokey to me. Especially the fact that they mentioned TATP. Somehow I don't see a guy sitting on a crapper with a bottle of acetone, peroxide, and catalyst....then filtering out the precipitate and waiting for it to dry. And to even make it in useable quantities. Just doesn't make sense.
 
Unless they are prepared to frisk every single passanger for colostomy bags, I suspect the flights are still highly veunarable to that kind of attack. Cary on baggage is one thing, but how do you prevent a guy from ductaping a ziplock bag to his chest. or just swallowing a condom full of the stuff.

If An IPOD can be used as a detonator, why are they not collecting wristwatches with audiable alarms, or cell phones? or PDA's these guys know how to use regular items to blow stuff up.

Its good that they recognize the threat of liquids, it used to be a running joke that a 2 liter full of gasoline would make it right onto the plane.

I actually transported a 1 gallon metal can full of olive oil from new york to LAX in my carry on luggage. (I went shopping in the italian section of the bronx, great spices, cheap prices) upon getting home I realized that given a enough paper towels and a combustable hydrocarbon like the oil, the whole plane could have gone up in flames.

We've been slow to recognize the threats, but at least we're making some progress.

If they dissalowed carry on, and mandated a sort of hospital style gown it would go a long way towards securing flight.
 
Pre 9/11 - Toe nail cliper and pocket knives were OK to carry on a plane

Pre Shoe Bomber - you were able to carry matches or a lighter on a plane.

Today I am told no soda, bottled water, shampoo, hair gel, or any bottled liquid other than Baby Formula, and you better have that baby with you.

Pretty soon we are all going to have to get on planes naked:uhoh:
 
Quite frankly, I'm surprised the bottle thing didn't happen sooner considering
one of the "secure" buildings I use to work in had a molotov brought in
through security --and used. This guy would have been *stopped* had
people not been so queasy about profiling in the first place.

Unless they are prepared to frisk every single passanger for colostomy bags,
Click to expand...

TSA: "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to open that bag so I can inspect
the contents."

Passenger: "Umm....ok. Knock yourself out."

TSA: :barf: "Omigod! What's in there?!"

Passenger: "It's well, I guess you could call it something biological."

TSA: "Are you saying this is a biological weapon?!"

Passenger: "No.....sh@t!"

TSA: "I'd say you're deep in it now." (gets on radio) "We have a
possible WMD situation here --I need back-up!"
 
I'd be proud to board an airplane naked as long as they had the air conditioner turned waaaayyyy down.:cool:

Biker
 
Given about 10 minutes, any creative INDIVIDUAL thinker could get something dangerous (to the safety of the plane and passengers) on a plane.

The 2 liter of gasoline, cloth, and lighter is a prime example. What would this cost, like $3 plus airfare.

Another example is that if you noticed in the past when you flew they never looked at soda cans. I would routinely bring a can of soda and the screeners didn't give it a second look. It could easily have been an decoy can and a bomb.

Now, imagine a creative THINK TANK OF MOTIVATED PEOPLE, especially with a large budget. But really the budget is almost immaterial.

I choose to never fly if I can avoid it. I used to love to fly, but now I probably only fly once per year and only out of necessity. If I can drive there I will.

I don't think the American public is prepared to accept the fact that flying isn't safe from terrorism.

I see three directions in which people can go:

1) Naively continue to fly, try to stop these types of events, and hope for the best until some terrorist gets through.
2) Stop flying altogether -- never happen
3) Deeper and more intrusive searches including human Xrays - a huge privacy violation but will likely be the direction we move.
 
.45Guy,
I also read about the TATP and it doesnt make too much sense. But I'm quite sure the authorities are happy when the news channels do not explain how to do it. I guess the TATP is just distraction, even though the real stuff might be similar.
 
Airlines have been resisting the use of bomb resistent luggage/cargo containers for years. Too expensive they say. Wonder if this incident might change their minds.
 
@ leadcounsel

3) Deeper and more intrusive searches including human Xrays - a huge privacy violation but will likely be the direction we move.
Click to expand...

They have already employed backscatter imaging devices on a trial basis at several airports. These are very low dose in terms of radiation. But they will never be allowed to X-ray passengers with any machinery that can make photons go right through you (like hospital X-ray units and security/airport luggage and hand-luggage X-ray units). The dose to the passenger would be unacceptable. More about backscatter imaging here (would detect items taped to the body):

http://www.epic.org/privacy/surveillance/spotlight/0605/rapiscan.pdf

Note the dose differences at the bottom of that document (compares diagnostic X-rays to backscatter imaging)
 
What about fuel-air explosives?

Get in the crapper, seal the door from the inside with tape or putty to avoid the smell getting out, vaporize something flammable (gasoline and a spray bottle? Or even a dry powder like flour?) and set it off. Boom. Dunno if it'd be enough to down the plane though.

Want worse? Liquid mercury. Pour it just about anywhere, it'll start eating at the aluminum in a *hurry*. Hard to say when the bird will be crippled but it sure as hell will be.
 
I will be flying with up to half a liter of noxious organic liquid concealed on my person. I will gladly surrender it to any TSA official or airline executive upon request in a long arcing stream :cuss:
 
After watching tv last night I thought I was in school again - taking Bomb Making 101. They went into great detail, every container that could be used , what explosives and how to make them, what could be used as detonators !!!Now everybody knows !!
 
I think a multimillion dollar worldwide terror organization can figure out how to make a small bomb, with or without the help of CNN.
 
CNN is going on and on about TATP again. Do these people think we're retarded? Honestly, it seems more and more that they're just triying to whip up hysteria.
 
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