stevereno1
Member
A .45 exits a 20" barrel with far more velocity than a 6".44 mag. And that's one to grow on.
Long gun for field protection
- Thread starter krellor
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shooter429
Member
Oh why must they bring in the 10mm always!?!
I was going to tell you that this is not redundant, unlike people that feel like asking about their 9mm or .45 or lately 10mm, but then it happened
Please read this http://www.gunsmagazine.com/F0307.html
and
http://www.sixguns.com/range/sixgunsdefense.htm
and
http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/bigbore_091806/i
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?page=h_fea_bear_brown_AK_handgun_J.Oltersdorf
ndex3.html
It is neither a long-gun nor is it appropriate in the NW in BC. WA, ID, MT and WY you could very possibly run into a 600 Lb Grizzly for which few handguns and fewer autos are even close to suitable against.
One option and perhaps the best in your situation, is to get the Marlin Guide Gun in SS seen here http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895GS.aspx mount a low power fixed scope on a quick release base with lots of eye relief. Install tritium on the FS and stoke it With Garrett 540s researched here http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
then go out and practice.
Another option, which I personally use routinely is a Model 500, or 870 loaded with magnum rifled slugs. With an extended tube you can get 8 or 9 shots that should ruin a bruins day. Again put a tritium FS on the weapon as days in the woods in the NW are dark and dreary.
I would also suggest carrying the largest, most powerful big-bore magnum wheelgun (over .41) that you can handle, and stoke it with appropriate solids as a BUG. I personally carry 330 +P in 4- inch .44, but if you can handle more, please do so. Here are a couple possibilities
Shooter429
I was going to tell you that this is not redundant, unlike people that feel like asking about their 9mm or .45 or lately 10mm, but then it happened
For those of you who think a 10mm is enough gun, I suggest you do a little research before giving someone advice that could get them killed. Nice caliber, but it is just not enough gun.
Please read this http://www.gunsmagazine.com/F0307.html
and
http://www.sixguns.com/range/sixgunsdefense.htm
and
http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/bigbore_091806/i
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?page=h_fea_bear_brown_AK_handgun_J.Oltersdorf
ndex3.html
It is neither a long-gun nor is it appropriate in the NW in BC. WA, ID, MT and WY you could very possibly run into a 600 Lb Grizzly for which few handguns and fewer autos are even close to suitable against.
One option and perhaps the best in your situation, is to get the Marlin Guide Gun in SS seen here http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895GS.aspx mount a low power fixed scope on a quick release base with lots of eye relief. Install tritium on the FS and stoke it With Garrett 540s researched here http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
then go out and practice.
Another option, which I personally use routinely is a Model 500, or 870 loaded with magnum rifled slugs. With an extended tube you can get 8 or 9 shots that should ruin a bruins day. Again put a tritium FS on the weapon as days in the woods in the NW are dark and dreary.
I would also suggest carrying the largest, most powerful big-bore magnum wheelgun (over .41) that you can handle, and stoke it with appropriate solids as a BUG. I personally carry 330 +P in 4- inch .44, but if you can handle more, please do so. Here are a couple possibilities
Shooter429
If you insist on carrying a long gun , I think a 12 gauge pump loaded with slugs is the way to go . I also think a pair of revolvers for both of you is an excellant idea .
I'd be willing to bet that after a long hike lugging around a long gun you'll decide not to do it again .
just my $.02
I'd be willing to bet that after a long hike lugging around a long gun you'll decide not to do it again .
just my $.02
stevereno1
Member
I thought that the lad wanted to carry a long gun. for a handgun, get a ruger super redhawk in .480, or 44 mag. (I can't recommend a S&W because of the hillary lock) A marlin 336 in 30- 30, or 450 marlin is good as well. Given any choice for a long gun while hiking, camping, or doing any non-hunting activities, I would go with the thompson .45 with 20 stick mags, or even a 50 round drum. In a stand, while hunting, i'd go with a bolt action 7mm. or a 300 win. mag. but at camp, I'd want a hard hitter, with a lot of rounds, that I could empty on a bear as fast as possible.
There are really two questions here.
#1- what gun for protection.
#2- what is legal.
I have toted a short 12 gauge pump shotgun over some rough ground in the ANWR and SE AK, played with a bunch of ways to put it on a pack, and finally just ended up carrying it. One thing a lever action rifle and a pump shotgun have in common is a thin section, so they ride well in the hand. I usually carried the gun with an empty chamber and uncocked, so all I had to do was cycle the action to get ready to fire. This may be breaking some unknown rule, but I carried it a lot by the barrel, over my shoulder. (obviously pointing in a safe direction!)
For bears, penetration is key- the shotgun should be loaded with a hard cast slug like a Brenneke 1 1/8 or 1 3/8 oz. Try to break a shoulder with the first shot. A .45 caliber RIFLE cartridge in a lever gun with hard cast bullets like "Buffalo Bore " or similar will work also. When dealing with a big bear, there is no such thing as too much gun. (and do yourself a favor- don't shoot these heavy loads off a bench-stand up and let the recoil push you back, so you absorb it!)
Legality- this is an issue all to itself- some places it is legal, some places it is not. Research and use your judgment.
And #1 to the poster who said humans are the most dangerous....
#1- what gun for protection.
#2- what is legal.
I have toted a short 12 gauge pump shotgun over some rough ground in the ANWR and SE AK, played with a bunch of ways to put it on a pack, and finally just ended up carrying it. One thing a lever action rifle and a pump shotgun have in common is a thin section, so they ride well in the hand. I usually carried the gun with an empty chamber and uncocked, so all I had to do was cycle the action to get ready to fire. This may be breaking some unknown rule, but I carried it a lot by the barrel, over my shoulder. (obviously pointing in a safe direction!)
For bears, penetration is key- the shotgun should be loaded with a hard cast slug like a Brenneke 1 1/8 or 1 3/8 oz. Try to break a shoulder with the first shot. A .45 caliber RIFLE cartridge in a lever gun with hard cast bullets like "Buffalo Bore " or similar will work also. When dealing with a big bear, there is no such thing as too much gun. (and do yourself a favor- don't shoot these heavy loads off a bench-stand up and let the recoil push you back, so you absorb it!)
Legality- this is an issue all to itself- some places it is legal, some places it is not. Research and use your judgment.
And #1 to the poster who said humans are the most dangerous....
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You kill a bear that far away without it being in hunting season, and you having a license/permit, and you are going to be in a heap-a-trouble-boy!
Heres more info from Alaska F&G department.
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bears.bearfax
rcmodel
whitetiger7654
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2007
- Messages
- 234
I'm not a hiker. But if it is dark where you go I would put a weapon mounted flashlight on whatever you choose.
The Remington 870 would be easiest to do this with. Just mount a surefire fore end on it
Cosmoline
Member
I've carried rifles like that many times on the trail. I don't know of any rule it breaks. A 91/30 will ride like that all day, no problem.
KRELLOR - "Also, to give an idea of where I spend a lot of my time most of my trips are in one of 5 places. Yellowstone (eastern shore of Yellowstone lake, gallatin skyline), the blue/wallowa mountains, eastern Alaska, northern BC (typically above the bowron area) and the okanogan. I live in washington state."
Krellor, be very aware that firearms are strictly forbidden in National Parks, and in almost all State Parks. As for hiking in B.C., as was mentioned above, handguns are absolutley proscribed for almost everyone in Canada, and non-residents.
Even carrying a long gun in Canada requires paperwork, plus a fee to even take the long gun into the country. You also must register it with U.S. Customs on one of their forms, in order to bring it back to the U.S.
Make sure it is legal to carry whatever gun you buy while hiking.
If you buy a handgun, I strongly suggest you first learn shooting, safety fundamentals, etc., on a .22 pistol or revolver. Doesn't cost a fortune to become accurate, and you'll not be recoil conscious when you move up to a larger caliber. Same goes for your wife, should she want to learn to shoot.
FWIW.
L.W.
Krellor, be very aware that firearms are strictly forbidden in National Parks, and in almost all State Parks. As for hiking in B.C., as was mentioned above, handguns are absolutley proscribed for almost everyone in Canada, and non-residents.
Even carrying a long gun in Canada requires paperwork, plus a fee to even take the long gun into the country. You also must register it with U.S. Customs on one of their forms, in order to bring it back to the U.S.
Make sure it is legal to carry whatever gun you buy while hiking.
If you buy a handgun, I strongly suggest you first learn shooting, safety fundamentals, etc., on a .22 pistol or revolver. Doesn't cost a fortune to become accurate, and you'll not be recoil conscious when you move up to a larger caliber. Same goes for your wife, should she want to learn to shoot.
FWIW.
L.W.
SoonerSP101
Member
Not practical for immediate needs or a quick follow-up...
But the bang stick seems light weight and kind of cool
http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/2006/09/bear-protectionnot-for-meek.html
But the bang stick seems light weight and kind of cool
http://fatbikealaska.blogspot.com/2006/09/bear-protectionnot-for-meek.html
Snapping Twig
Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2007
- Messages
- 655
I hunt in Northern California where bear and cougar are ever present. My choice of back-up weapon is a sidearm. I choose a 3" .44 with 265g cast rounds. Hard hitting and penetrating, enough for a bear and certainly enough for a big cat.
As to a rifle, I like a semi auto in something like 30-06 or even a 7.62 X 39 (mini 30).
A shotgun with slugs is good and has the side benefit of being able to use various alternate loads for game.
Whatever you select, be certain the local laws and covenants allow it and learn to use it under pressure. Having an uber powered weapon is no good if you can't hit what you're aiming at and follow-up shots are the hallmark of your specified needs. You may need to put several into the boiler room.
As to a rifle, I like a semi auto in something like 30-06 or even a 7.62 X 39 (mini 30).
A shotgun with slugs is good and has the side benefit of being able to use various alternate loads for game.
Whatever you select, be certain the local laws and covenants allow it and learn to use it under pressure. Having an uber powered weapon is no good if you can't hit what you're aiming at and follow-up shots are the hallmark of your specified needs. You may need to put several into the boiler room.
shooter429
Member
Doh!
To give y'all an idea of how tough these critters are, check out this quote from a hunt
So pick the biggest gun you can handle.
Anyhew, if you are in Yellowstone, you will not be able to carry a long gun. And then you have to decide to carry something in your backpack and break the @#$% law or be prepared to fight the bear with your pocket knife. Tough choice.
Shooter429
Thanks. How did I forget to mention the light.
To give y'all an idea of how tough these critters are, check out this quote from a hunt
So pick the biggest gun you can handle.
Anyhew, if you are in Yellowstone, you will not be able to carry a long gun. And then you have to decide to carry something in your backpack and break the @#$% law or be prepared to fight the bear with your pocket knife.
Tough choice.Shooter429
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Jimmypop97
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2007
- Messages
- 39
+1
A Mossberg 500 with a 18.5 inch barrel and top-folding stock to keep it compact.
Attach a sling to it, and it will be pretty easy to carry.
12ga is probably about as effective of a self-defense round as you will find, with multitudes of types of shells for different purposes.
A pump shotgun is also probably about as reliable of a firearms as you will ever find as well. My Maverick 88 (same thing as a 500) has NEVER jammed on me.
Any problems with a grizzly bear, all you have to do is rack the slide and he should instantly vaporize
But really, some 1.5oz slugs should stop a bear dead in it's tracks when properly placed(although with the choice, I would want a howitzer myself).
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Clipper
Member
I like to keep things simple...A 4" DA revolver in .44 mag with a ported barrel and Pachmyer rubber grips is handy and powerful, and can be matched with a lever or semiauto carbine for much more serious punch, with the added benefit of only having to pack one kind of ammo...
TehK1w1
Member
I carry a 444 Marlin with a 22" barrel down here in S. Texas. (For man-eating Nilgai) Several of my coworkers carry Marlin 1895 Guide guns. We actually carry them more to deter coyotes(the 2-legged variety) and drug smugglers than animals.
Ash
Member
For backpacking, a sling is not a very good method of carry unless you go over the chest. Over-the-shoulder carry doesn't work. I carried a desert canteen on one shoulder with pack up mountains because I was too lazy to properly sling it once. It kept falling off. The thing to continue to remember here is weight. It has to be light enough to carry or it will be left at home after one hike. I haven't found a good way to do it, personally, and so still do not carry. Of course, I mostly hike in black bear country that is inherently less risky - though one does hear of an occasional death from black bear. Hiking in numbers is one way to keep safer.
Ash
Ash
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I've never packed with a long gun. I have carried either a 4" .357 or .44mag revolver. They were easy to conceal -- or more accurately, camouflage amongst all the gear. If I WERE to pack with a long gun, and I had to pull something from the safe to do so rather than buying something a-purpose, I'd pass on the 18" Mossberg 500 because of its weight, and opt for my Remington Model Seven in .308. It is far lighter in its current configuration, and could be lightened further by removing the scope and relying on iron sights. With a good controlled expansion bullet, it would be fine on most bear.
But I'd also pack a revolver.
But I'd also pack a revolver.
Deanimator
Member
1. Pistol grip only shotguns are hideously unpleasant to shoot with bear appropriate loads. That affects ones willingness to practice.
2. Despite endless internet blather, shotguns have to be aimed. Aiming a pistol grip only shotgun is harder to aim one with a stock.
If you're going shotgun, carry one with a stock that allows you to aim properly.
My preference would be for the new Cimarron copy of the Winchester '92 "Trapper" in .44 Magnum.
TallPine
Member
This really isn't that complex. There are a number of shotguns and rifles that would be adequate and fairly handy, so it is pretty much a consideration of personal preference, price, and other uses for the long gun. But you have to plan on carrying it in your hands if you expect to have a chance to protect yourself and your family in bear country. (above the snow line or possibly on a busy trail leading to wilder areas you might be fine with stuffing it barrel down in your pack sack)
A large bore revolver always carried so that it can be drawn quickly (almost mandates "open carry") would be a good backup. Cross-draw might be good since grip forward is less likely to interfere with shoulder straps. A revolver/carbine in the same caliber would be handy since something like .44mag is going to gain a lot of velocity in a rifle barrel.
Sure, it's a lot of extra weight. I suppose it just depends on where you are going, to balance comfort and convenience with safety. The process of becoming bear poop would not be a pleasant experience for you or your loved ones. I dunno how it is now, but when I lived in Alaska thirty years ago, once you got out into the brush outside of town it was almost universal that everyone was carrying a shotgun and/or revolver (at least one in every group). We used to casually toss our packs and unloaded guns up to the guys in the baggage car when shuttling out to the bush on the Alaska RR.
A large bore revolver always carried so that it can be drawn quickly (almost mandates "open carry") would be a good backup. Cross-draw might be good since grip forward is less likely to interfere with shoulder straps. A revolver/carbine in the same caliber would be handy since something like .44mag is going to gain a lot of velocity in a rifle barrel.
Sure, it's a lot of extra weight. I suppose it just depends on where you are going, to balance comfort and convenience with safety. The process of becoming bear poop would not be a pleasant experience for you or your loved ones. I dunno how it is now, but when I lived in Alaska thirty years ago, once you got out into the brush outside of town it was almost universal that everyone was carrying a shotgun and/or revolver (at least one in every group). We used to casually toss our packs and unloaded guns up to the guys in the baggage car when shuttling out to the bush on the Alaska RR.
Ash
Member
I most certainly agree about pistol-grip shotguns. Again, I just don't see a whole lot of ease when using a long-gun on the trail. My personal recommendation would be a 357 revolver. But the big trouble is hiking locations like Yellowstone. Heck, I don't do national parks because most of them don't allow dogs on the trail. I hike with a border collie (used to hike with a Shetland Sheepdog who has sense passed away) and she is a good part of the safety on the trail. Plus, she makes for fine companionship.
Ash
Ash
TallPine
Member
Dog comes running back to you with grizzly in hot pursuit: I caught him, Dad - now you can skin him!
Ed Ames
Member
I agree regarding the pistol grip shotgun -- not ideal. In fact I'd add folding stocks to that list. I've only really played with one but I've got to say it takes away more than it gives in most cases.
That said... I have a knoxx folding stock with trick recoil distribution (spreading the kick over time) system and you can fire heavy slugs with the stock folded and it's no worse than some pistols. I would recommend that stock for this sort of application except it is extremely bulky. I bought it to allow me to carry a shotgun in space limited situations (similar to backpacking) but with the bulky wire loop sticking up and everything else the gun is more than a little awkward to store and handle.
There is nothing wrong with practicing with light loads. You can get light (7/8th oz) birdshot and practice clay shooting (even with a PGO gun) or fixed targets (clays are WAY more fun) then move up to heavy slugs when in the field.
That said... I have a knoxx folding stock with trick recoil distribution (spreading the kick over time) system and you can fire heavy slugs with the stock folded and it's no worse than some pistols. I would recommend that stock for this sort of application except it is extremely bulky. I bought it to allow me to carry a shotgun in space limited situations (similar to backpacking) but with the bulky wire loop sticking up and everything else the gun is more than a little awkward to store and handle.
There is nothing wrong with practicing with light loads. You can get light (7/8th oz) birdshot and practice clay shooting (even with a PGO gun) or fixed targets (clays are WAY more fun) then move up to heavy slugs when in the field.
Ash
Member
We hike with two dogs, a friend of mine has a border in addition to mine. One takes the lead the other the rear of the group. Quite literally they walk proudly with their heard of humans.It reminds me of a video I saw of US troops preparing for D-Day. They were in smart lines awaiting their turn to climb on board the transport. There were two border collies running up and down the line, probably so very proud that their flock of humans was in perfect order!
Ours (Wick and Molly) keep with the group and do not stray when we rest. They make wonderful guards, though, because they hear other hikers before we can see them. Better yet, they are well-behaved and do not harass others on the trail. Tell them to sit and stay, and they stay that way while others pass us. What tops it all, though, is if the night goes below the rated temperature on your sleeping bag, just pull a dog into the bag with you and, voila, cozy warm. I've done that twice, once, on the Frozen Chosen (a take off of another famously cold event), I put my water bottle at the bottom of my sleeping bag because the water had turned to slush in the packs while hiking. It went beyond my feet and was isolated while my dog and I curled up higher in the bag. I woke up in the morning and the water had turned once more to slush. In any case, the dog and I were mosty-toasty through the night (a one dog night, I suppose you can say).
Again, I believe in ccw and open carry. I sometimes carry while on the job. But on the trail it isn't so easy to carry so that the firearm can be deployed quickly. Leaving it in the pack makes it pretty useless for half the trip and the majority of the waking hours. Of course, were I to be hiking in grizzly country, I would do things differently.
Ash
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