Long Range Hunting Cartridges

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, it would be. But that's just one of the things you put up with if you want to play sniper.
Id say, depends on the walk. If it's not thru heavy brush and you have a good sling barrel length doesn't mean a whole lot.
I've bird, and pig, hunted enough with an old Remington 870 goose gun, that even with the long barrel it's not hard for me to move thru brush, or trees, untill I have to crawl.

I'm more concerned with the bulky stocks that usually adorn long, LONG, barreled rifles. They usually don't lend themselves to offhand shooting, and for me that's a major failing. As much as I enjoy shooting my current 7mm, in it's heavy Boyd's ProV stock, I rarely hunt with it unless I KNOW I'll have time to set up and shoot prone or sitting with the stock/bipod braced on something.
 
i'm not really a hunter but i would use my 300norma mag and the 230g berger hybrid tacticals
 
i'm not really a hunter but i would use my 300norma mag and the 230g berger hybrid tacticals
Great target and military bullet, but not really made to expand. I wouldn’t hunt with it.
 
I want to stick an addendum on my previous post - I had a 7 Dakota for a brief while, absolutely shot out, so I bailed on it. I would really like to have another, solely intended for long range hunting.
 
Great target and military bullet, but not really made to expand. I wouldn’t hunt with it.

Again I’m not a hunter but my thought process is that shot placement trumps terminal ballistics.
If you’re stipulating 600+ yards then the biggest factor is wind and I’ll take the better Bc and a few inches less wind drift over a couple mm more expansion. Ymmv
 
Again I’m not a hunter but my thought process is that shot placement trumps terminal ballistics.
If you’re stipulating 600+ yards then the biggest factor is wind and I’ll take the better Bc and a few inches less wind drift over a couple mm more expansion. Ymmv

I hear your thought process, but the HPBT target bullets aren’t designed to expand at all. Shot placement is king for sure, but if you’re stretching it out to such great distance where the .05 bc difference is of a matter then you really need an expanding bullet. Otherwise you’re poking a hole in flesh like a needle.
 
Use a bullet with enough weight and a SD high enough to give adequate penetration on the game hunted. Elk size game need more bullet weight to ensure adequate penetration than deer. Deer size game can be taken with bullets in the 100 gr range easily. I'd place 130 gr as about the minimum for elk, and even heavier bullets for bigger game.

Some of the harder premium bullets need 2000 fps or more to expand, others expand down to 1800 fps, a handful as slow as 1600 fps.

A handful will stay together at speeds over 3000 fps impact, but most give erratic results if they impact over 2800 fps so there is a balancing act. A magnum cartridge will give you a little more range before bullets drop below the minimum speeds needed for expansion, but might blow up at close range with soft bullets. With harder bullets they work up close at high impact speeds, but drop below the 2000 fps threshold at closer ranges.

Find the info you need and run the numbers through a ballistics program. The ranges where the bullets impact speeds vary between 2800 fps down to 1800 fps is the cartridges effective ranges. That doesn't mean the shooter is good enough at that range, but the cartridge is. The results may come as a surprise.

Flat trajectory simply isn't an issue beyond about 300 yards. All cartridges drop enough that exact ranging is critical along with a BDC type scope. That can be calculated regardless of the bullets trajectory.

A 308 loaded with a high BC 175-180 gr will leave the muzzle at 2600 fps and not drop below 1800 fps out to 550 yards. A softer bullet like the ELD-X wouldn't go below 1600 fps until 700 yards. BTW, that is faster than a 170 gr 30-30 bullet impacts at 100 yards. If a 30-30 is a 100 yard cartridge, there is no reason a 308 isn't a 600 yard cartridge.

A 6.5 CM with a 143 ELD-X has enough mass to give adequate penetration on elk, but doesn't drop below 1800 fps until almost 800 yards. Almost 1000 yards before it is below 1600 fps

A 300 WM shooting a 200 gr ELD-X at 2900 fps drops below those speeds at exactly the same ranges as 6.5 CM. But might be going too fast inside 100 yards where impact speeds would be above 2800 fps. And if trajectory is something you think about the 300 only has about 20" less drop at 800 yards. At a 1/2 mile 20" is not much. And a 300 WM won't kill a game animal any deader than the 6.5 CM.

We have to be honest with ourselves. What good does it do to have a rifle capable of taking game at a mile, if we don't have the skills to shoot beyond 1/4 mile. I have owned lots of rifles, including many magnums, but I sold my last 300 WM after buying my 6.5 CM and consider it an upgrade.

I hear your thought process, but the HPBT target bullets aren’t designed to expand at all.

False.

Target bullets aren't designed to take game, but many of them have proven to work well even though not designed to do so. Some exceptionally well, and if they have a shortcoming some expand too much. The Lapua Scenar target bullets have earned a reputation for being an excellent hunting bullet as have several others. But to be fair, some target bullets do not work well on game.
 
I want to stick an addendum on my previous post - I had a 7 Dakota for a brief while, absolutely shot out, so I bailed on it. I would really like to have another, solely intended for long range hunting.

I've wanted a 7 Dakota since I read about in cartridges of the world.
I thought a 7mm bassed on a full length .375 Ruger case would be pretty sweet too. I read somewhere that it had been done tho, and that Hornady .375 Ruger brass wasn't consistent enough.

I hear your thought process, but the HPBT target bullets aren’t designed to expand at all. Shot placement is king for sure, but if you’re stretching it out to such great distance where the .05 bc difference is of a matter then you really need an expanding bullet. Otherwise you’re poking a hole in flesh like a needle.
I've hunted enough with Berger's Match VLDs to be confident in them, but generally I prefer to use a tipped bullet if shooting a "match" bullet for hunting.
 
Milsups 60's Czeck 7.62x54r LPS ''Silver tip'' steel cored FMJ's, all day long, by the box or the case.

Consistent and a real 'Tumbler' when its a couple inched in the flesh until its flippin' out the other side......a real killer non expanding round.
 
Historically, I have been using a 308. If I were shooting animals on a regular basis at that distance, I would invest in a 6.5 CM or a 6.5 PRC.
 
@MCMXI was working with a 6.5PRC build I think, havent heard much about it recently.

I'll champion the 6.5-284, I really like mine.
Its especially good if you happen to have a 3.1-2" action (mine is a T-99). I need to do a bit more load development, as I got distracted by my 7mm and .375, but I was at 2950 with 140class.bullets from a 24" tube. Accuracy is excellent for a light sporter weight barrel. Lowish recoil, and exterior ballistics that nearly equal my 7mm load.

I've taken one 500-600lb feral bull with a 143eld-x at about 40yds.
Launch velocity was 2880ish. Shot was behind the right shoulder. Damage didn't seem spectacular, especially compared to a Berger or Amax, but the bull only ran about 30yds then went face first into a mud puddle
On side lung was puka, heart probably had some holes in it, off side lung didn't look damaged. Penetration was about 8-12". No bullet fragments we're recovered.

Same bullet at 100+ yds would likely have caused more traditional wounding and penetrated better. I didn't think about it or look, but I wonder if it didn't sluff it's jacket on entry.
 
When I’m out there at 600+ yards, I know I only have about 500 yards of stalking until I’m in range.

It’s not an ethics thing for me. I have a few rifles capable of making shots that far. It’s that I just don’t want to take shots that far.

And I hope you guys actually read Caribou’s first post. 400-500 yards with a Mosin and iron sights.....even on running animals. My hats off.
 
Mine is a Savage M110 in .300 RUM.
I got it used for a pittance, due to ammo costs and it wears a 3.5-10x scope. My “long range”deer load is the Hornady 180gr SST over 105gr of WC860 for 3,300fps. (26”bbl with 0.375” “Weatherby”free-bore throat. Does nothing for accuracy, but lowers pressures and boosts velocity).
I’ve only killed 1 deer with it at over 400yds. That was at a lased 438yds on an airport doing nuisance control. Two others were at over 300. Usually they have the decency to just walk up within 50yds and surrender, or not show up at all.

Recoil with a Harris bipod is substantial but not unmanageable. Just a bit sharper and harder than my .375Ruger, or about like a 3” 1-7/8oz turkey load in a Mod-870 pump shotgun. I do have a 1” “Kickeze” recoil pad on it instead of the solid 1/2” that came on it.

Longest shot with it has been 600yds at CMP Talladega. Using 300yd zero, I was able to hold-off and get a 9 o’clock “9”, for first shot. Second and third landed in the 10 ring with a windage correction. I’d had enough!
Went back to the Service Rifle AR with match iron sights and 80gr MatchKings.
I think that Savage 300RUM kicks harder and louder dry firing than that 13lb AR with 80gr Match ammo!
 
In order from least to most vicious, 6mm-284, 6.5 prc, and 7mm stw. Bergers, elds, ablrs will be close to 1600 fps, the prc with get the most range, but sometimes that stw with 162s is just......necessary...... ;)
 
I don't think the long range hunting phenomenon can ever be separated from it's ethical issues. When you do something unethical, it has a tendency to stick with you.

However, you can slightly extend your ethical hunting range (as defined by unavoidable wind call error and the risk of animal movement during flight time) by using rounds that are fast with high-BC bullets. Any 6.5 or 7mm in a WSM or long action case is an obvious candidate with correct loading. The .264WM and .280 Nosler are powerhouses. In terms of bullets, the Bergers, ABLRs and ELD-Xs SUCK. WAY too many terminal failures in the last couple of years with all the elk snipers running around. In 6.5mm and 7mm I like the Weldcores - a very basic design, but high BCs in the context of what they are. In .30 the 180gr Swift Scirocco II is an obvious winner. With sufficient size cases all 3 will stay above minimum impact velocity farther than you can ethically shoot.

For lighter game the 6.5mm and 7mm Swift offerings are unbeatable.
 
In terms of bullets, the Bergers, ABLRs and ELD-Xs SUCK. WAY too many terminal failures in the last couple of years with all the elk snipers running around.
I believe that rather than blaming a bullet designed to expand rapidly at lower velocities, it could be said that such bullets have a time and place and without proper understanding of how the bullet is meant to behave, poor results are likely. Similar to expecting a Barnes to not pencil through at 1600 fps, the hunter should have a good understanding of the limits of their gear, an ablr reducing wind drift and allowing more accurate placement on a deer's vitals is certainly not something to be derisive of, likewise an oryx smashing through everything solid or squishy at point blank range has its place too. Neither are bad but I would use neither where the other belongs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top