They aren't phasing out the Mk 4, just that since Jan 1 of this year, they are only available from Leupold to LE/Mil customers.
long range rifle & scope recommendation
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They aren't phasing out the Mk 4, just that since Jan 1 of this year, they are only available from Leupold to LE/Mil customers.
Nature Boy
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Phasing them out for you and me, is that better?
regardless, my point is still the same. There are some awesome deals out there for a great scope
Then it's a half inch/MOA rifle at 100 yards. In my opinion. It will not shoot that well at long range.
salt&battery
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then you should get the leupold Mk 8 only $6100 before tax
salt&battery
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internet groups might be different when witnessed in reality lol
I'm on the tail end of assembling a configuration that started out with similar objectives (I think) to what you stated. I'm not saying this necessarily is the right answer for you, but this was my thinking and what I did.
I, too, have an S&W M&P AR. I'm not a hunter. I like shooting paper and steel. I've used this AR for steel ringing out to 400 yds. It has been fun, but I wanted something a bit more accurate, that would ring the steel a little louder
, but enable me to shoot it without worrying about recoil / flinching. (Which I tend to have an issue with.) Where I shoot has a 500 yd gong and I wanted to be able to get out there more reliably.
I settled on a Rem 700 in .243 with a 26" bull barrel. I put a Leupold VX-3i (Varmint Hunter's reticle) on it, along with a Timney Calvin Elite trigger and Boyd's thumbhole stock. I load the ammo for it. It has performed really well.
The common complaint on the .243 is that it wears out barrels relatively quickly. I'm not going to put THAT many rounds through it annually - maybe 100? (I'm not competing with it or anything.) So if I have to invest $500 for a new barrel in 10-15 years so be it.
OR
I, too, have an S&W M&P AR. I'm not a hunter. I like shooting paper and steel. I've used this AR for steel ringing out to 400 yds. It has been fun, but I wanted something a bit more accurate, that would ring the steel a little louder
, but enable me to shoot it without worrying about recoil / flinching. (Which I tend to have an issue with.) Where I shoot has a 500 yd gong and I wanted to be able to get out there more reliably.I settled on a Rem 700 in .243 with a 26" bull barrel. I put a Leupold VX-3i (Varmint Hunter's reticle) on it, along with a Timney Calvin Elite trigger and Boyd's thumbhole stock. I load the ammo for it. It has performed really well.
The common complaint on the .243 is that it wears out barrels relatively quickly. I'm not going to put THAT many rounds through it annually - maybe 100? (I'm not competing with it or anything.) So if I have to invest $500 for a new barrel in 10-15 years so be it.
OR
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P
What's their tolerance for image shift on reticle as power is changed? All zoom scopes have some, but a collimator is needed to measure it.
What altitude and atmospheric condition does Zeiss use for their BDC feature? I ask because there can be a 6 MOA difference in bullet drop at long ranges from sea level to 7,000 feet.
What's their tolerance for image shift on reticle as power is changed? All zoom scopes have some, but a collimator is needed to measure it.
salt&battery
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that is why I never like a high range of magnification and turning the mag ring to and fro. any rifle I zeroed for longer I always left it in the X power I zeroed with and never changed it
In my tests with several variables, there's a small shift in reticle on target from recoil at all power. I can see the reticle make an "S" or figure 8 pattern zooming from one extreme to the other. Extremes at both ends had the smallest. Measure their size with clicks on the windage and elevation knobs.
The two lens cells power rings move back and forth have a clearance to the tube they slide in. Recoil shakes them and they don't always go back to the same place. So different places on the target are centered on the reticle + .
The two lens cells power rings move back and forth have a clearance to the tube they slide in. Recoil shakes them and they don't always go back to the same place. So different places on the target are centered on the reticle + .
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CoalTrain49
Member
I have seen this first hand. New shooter gets an AR and a holographic based on marketing or a sales pitch. The first thing that happens is they can't see well enough to shoot a decent group at 300. Nothing wrong with a military look alike, but hello.....you aren't in the military. Maybe you're joining a militia. In that case you're on the right road.
To the OP
I have a Howa .223 bolt gun. I would need better glass to go out to 400 but the platform and cartridge is solid. Personally I don't think you need a 2K scope for 400. If you plan on ever shooting beyond 400 then a 2K scope might be a good investment up front. If you are on a budget I would look at a Vortex Viper HS-T and any one of the .223 varmint bolt guns (Savage, Tikka, Browning, etc.) in the <1K price range. All good. If it doesn't shoot, send it back and make them fix it. Don't buy used unless you know the rifle. People have been known to burn a barrel up and trade the rifle into a dealer for a new one.
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Uncle Lenny
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Yes,with the vortex no questions asked warranty for the beginner to intermediate shooter,why look farther.
RainDodger
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I bit the bullet so to speak, about a year ago. (First, I'll say I'm what you'd call a Leupold guy... I have 2 safes full of Leupolds and one Vortex scope.) I borrowed a buddy's scope for one range outing, and I simply had to have one of my own... a Leupold Mark 4. I bought my own Mark 4 LRT, 8.5-25X. Yep, it's a big scope and it's a lot of scope, and it's an expensive scope, but I absolutely love it and I have not regretted it for one second. It's on a 26" heavy barreled .308. It cost more than most of my rifles. But... with optics, you get what you pay for.
As mentioned above, there are deals on Mark 4 scopes right now because Leupold is going to stop selling them to civilians (if they haven't already). They'll be sold to military and law enforcement, by special order only. If you can find one at a decent price, I can pretty much guarantee you'll like it a lot.
As mentioned above, there are deals on Mark 4 scopes right now because Leupold is going to stop selling them to civilians (if they haven't already). They'll be sold to military and law enforcement, by special order only. If you can find one at a decent price, I can pretty much guarantee you'll like it a lot.
cdb1
Member
In the Razor line yes. In the Viper line not for me.
These 3-16 and 5-20 S Tac scopes were selling for 650 to 700 bucks but have dropped way down in price. May be closing them out. Anyway, a buddy got the 5-20 and I got a 3-16 and they are very nice and a good buy. I am very happy with mine. Plenty of power for 300 to 400 yard shooting. Mine is very clear. Better than my Viper. To my eyes of course.
http://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=s+tac&userItemsPerPage=48
http://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=s+tac&userItemsPerPage=48
cdb1
Member
I've always read good things about Sightron scopes, mostly the Big Sky line. Where I live there are none to be found. I'd like to get my hands on one.
cdb1
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I'd just like to look through one.
cdb1
Member
Cool beans. I've bought two scopes sight unseen and was pleased with both.
Saw some pretty good deals on these at Optic Planet yesterday. I almost wanted to pick one up just because it was a deal
I could always find a rifle to put it on later.-jeff
Depends on what you want to do at longer ranges.
Still only a plinker ? Ring steel ?
Shoot groups ? Compete ?
The first two and last two have different requirements.
As a RSO and Rifle Instructor I've recently seen a trend, mostly in young shooters, of shooters showing up with high end rifles and optics with the hopes of shooting well. Equipment will make a good shooter better but won't make a poor shooter good.
I'd say pick up a decent rifle, equip it with a mid price range scope ($250-400) spend the rest in quality ammo or components and SHOOT. Take a lesson if you want to get better. That rifle/optic combo will get you through most of you're needs without wasting money.
Just this past week I was at the range. Guy shows up with a REALLY nice AR/ optic set up. Outshot him @ 100yds with my M1 Garand and open sights. His only response was "What the ..."
Still only a plinker ? Ring steel ?
Shoot groups ? Compete ?
The first two and last two have different requirements.
As a RSO and Rifle Instructor I've recently seen a trend, mostly in young shooters, of shooters showing up with high end rifles and optics with the hopes of shooting well. Equipment will make a good shooter better but won't make a poor shooter good.
I'd say pick up a decent rifle, equip it with a mid price range scope ($250-400) spend the rest in quality ammo or components and SHOOT. Take a lesson if you want to get better. That rifle/optic combo will get you through most of you're needs without wasting money.
Just this past week I was at the range. Guy shows up with a REALLY nice AR/ optic set up. Outshot him @ 100yds with my M1 Garand and open sights. His only response was "What the ..."
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Asking what long range rifle/scope/caliber is akin to asking what's your favorite truck (F150 of course). Everyone is going to have a favorite. I went with the Savage LRP in 6.5 Creed with a Viper Vortex 6-24 Scope and DNZ Mount.
I agree with ford8nr on getting an expensive rifle won't make you a good shooter. At least I know its not my equipment that shoots poorly. Practice and good instruction will make a poor shooter good and a good shooter better.
I agree with ford8nr on getting an expensive rifle won't make you a good shooter. At least I know its not my equipment that shoots poorly. Practice and good instruction will make a poor shooter good and a good shooter better.
cdb1
Member
Are you saying someone would be better served buying a good rifle and decent scope then practice practice practice than purchasing a custom rifle, expensive scope and seldom practicing? Surely you jest. My mother warned me about people like you.
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