looking to buy an AR please help

[bamabluesman]

I know this has been gone over a million times but the search brings up too much info so so I need some simple help on what to buy. I'm looking for an out of the box AR to shoot long range (to me a rimfire shooter all my life) 100 yards has been long range for me so far. Here are the centerfire rifles that i own. An M1 Garrand (left to me by my dad) and a K31. I can take either of these rifles and out shoot 90% of the sooters at the range that are using scopes with the iron sights. So here is what i'm looking for. I want to shoot from 25 to 400 yards using both iron sights and a scope. I don't want a carry handle or a bull barrel. Other than that I'm wide open to suggestions. So far I like the S&W M&P 15. What are your thoughts on this rifle? I am a complete idiot on this subject so please help me spend my money wisely. I need to keep total cost under $1,000

 

[cbsbyte]

Why do you want an AR? There are better rifles for shooting long distance. ARs are not as accurate as bolt action rifle. A nice varmint/target rifle will be right up your alley. How about a Savage 12 Varminter rifle. If you are really set on a AR then a S&W will be as good as any.
http://www.savagearms.com/12Varminter.htm

 

[blackhawk2000]

AR's are very capable of being bolt gun accurate. The M&P is OK. They have had issues in the past. Your budget is not realistic. I can't think of any way to buy an out of box AR, and scope that is worth a damn for $1000 or less.

 

[Guillermo]

The M & P is a nice weapon but my preference is the Predator Pursuit Rifle.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=229

Have fun looking for a new toy!

 

[rangerruck]

you need a rifle with a 20 or 22 inch bbl, govt profile, with a rail flat top, then put on a scope, and some flip up Buis'. buis are Back Up Iron Sites, BUIS.
yOU WILL proly have to have it built.

 

[brian923]

Quality AR's will shoot just as good as bolt guns now-a-days. and, if you dont want to build one, you can find performance built AR's, but they come at a price. i have a colt match target that will shoot 1/2 inch MOA all day long. it may even do better with a more seasoned shooter behind the trigger.

LES BAER rifles are one of the top performance built AR's but they are around the 2000.00$ mark. now, you do not have to spend that much to have a quality AR. do some resaerch on the net, and youl see that STAG, COLT, REMINGTOM, and many more AR manufactures are pumping out premium rifles. and they will shoot out to 1000 yards if set up properly.

bolt gun guys just dont want to admit it!!!

 

[S4Lee]

brian, are you referring to a .223 AR? What's the bullet drop at 1000yds?

@ the OP: I think you can probably find a M&P15-A for just under $1k, and an -X for a bit more (both are flat-top and incl. Troy BUIS), but as stated earlier, you'll be hard-pressed to keep under a $1k w/ a decent optic.

 

[brian923]

heres a chart from sniper central.

http://www.snipercentral.com/223.htm

the .223 will not by any means have enough energy for a clean kill on humans, or game at 1000 yards, but it is used by many, many military marksman for there shooting compotitions.

and heres some really good reading for the .223, and its slighty bigger brother, the .223 AI (which can also be chanberd to fit into an AR-15.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

i should have said in my earlier post that to shoot 1000 yards accuratly, you will have to have a barrel that is made for the purpose of stabilizing the heavier bullets. from 69 grn to 90 grn. 90 grainers usually have to be feed singly into the rifle, as they tend to be loaded to an O.A.L that it just to big to fit in the 2.260" magazine. there are mags availible, made from stainless steel, that allow for longer O.A.L's, but i do not know them off the top of my head. 77 grn sierra SMk's are used alot to shoot 1000 yards and they can be loaded to do so at the max O.A.L that will fit into the AR magazine. i believe that they will stabilize in a 1/9 twist, but a 1/8 or even a 1/7 would probably be better. i think that the cut off limit for 1/9 twist is 55 grn- 69 grn. for varmiting out to 350 yards though. 55-60 grn bullets would be a the best bet. they are very accurate and retain a lot of energy to that point. after 350 yards, they seem to run out of stem. but then thats where the 77+ grners com in handy.

now, i have heard that hornady and berger are both setting out to make long range bullets specifically for the REMINGTON 6.8 SPC. which will also fit on the AR plateform. this will infinitally extend the use of the ever growing 6.8 round.

there are alot of better choices for shooting 1000 yards than that of the .223, but it will do it. and do it accuratly if the rifle and shooter can do there part.

 

[S4Lee]

Whoa! 300in (25 ft?!?!) drop w/ a 600yd zero! That's crazy! I wouldn't have thought that anyone would even want to try and shoot a .223 out past 600yds or so (maybe 800 max...).

 

[brian923]

all i know is that ALOT of guys use the .223/5.56 in NRA high power and three gun comps, and that the .223/5.56 has always been regaurded as a "weak" round, but matter of fact is that the AR with the 5.56 has replaced most, if not all the military records set buy the accurized M14. (believed to be the M21)

hears another good read. ACTUALLY the whole 6mmbr.com site has a lot of awsome reading by gentalmen who really know there stuff.

http://www.6mmbr.com/highpowerbasics.html

the AR plateform is the number one gun used in high power and three gun. this has to say something about the AR and the .223/5.56, or else it wouldnt be...


and.... just to compare the .223 bullet drop to the .308 bullet drop at 1000 yards, the 168 grn bullet, with a 600 yard zero is 261.7 inches low.

http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm (chart)

thats only 39 inches differeance form the .223!!!! you wouldnt expect it to be that close... no??

 

[Furncliff]

Before you buy off the rack. Look into having one of the many custom builders make you a rifle. Lot's of advantages in having parts in the gun for your intended use. The ones I have researched could build you what you are looking for in the 700-1000 range. Shoot irons for a while and save up for the scope. That's my plan for my AR purchase anyway.
Tom

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Smith & Wesson M&P 15 or Charles Daly DM-4LE...

Charles Daly being the slightly better choice (mil-spec barrel steel)...heres are 2 separate reviews ...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13937
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14400


My M&P 15 will shoot 1 MOA @100 yards with my reloads...most factory ammo gets 1.5-2 MOA @ 100 yards...those are 10 shot groups.

 

[RNB65]

The most accurate OOTB AR I've seen is the Colt Accurized Rifle. A buddy of mine has one and it's scary accurate. He bought it at a gun show, hand lapped the barrel, stuck a Nikon scope on it, and it will shoot dime sized holes all day long at 100yds with good ammo (I think he uses 75gr).

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Accurized.asp
-

 

[redbone]

Suggest that whatever you get, be sure to upgrade to a match-garde trigger. You'll be disappointed otherwise, if you're trying to do much accurate shooting.

The Rock River Arms National Match would be a good choice, but is a bit above your price range. Perhaps save for a bit longer???

Also, don't expect match accuracy if you shoot the cheapest ammo you can find. A few extra bucks for some better quality ammo is $$$ well spent if you're trying to wring every bit of accuracy out of the rifle.

You'll probably end up wanting more than one. After you get the 20" target rifle, you may experience a hankering for a 16" M4-style carbine.

Also, EOTechs work very well on ARs, and are not TOO overpriced!

Enjoy.

RBH

 

[Ndenway]

bamabluesman
looking to buy an AR plese help

I want to shoot from 25 to 400 yards using both iron sights and a scope. I don't want a carry handle or a bull barrel. Other than that I'm wide open to suggestions. I need to keep total cost under $1,000

a good easy to find nearly anywhere off the rack AR rifle to meet the requirements (other than price) you typed would be either the bushmaster varminter with the 24" free floated 1:9 twist heavy barrel (for stabilizing bullets 69grs or less),

or bushmaster predator with the 20" free floated 1:8 fluted heavy barrel (for stabilizing bullets 77grs or less),

both are flat top upper (A3) recivers and are capible of sub moa groups out of the box with a sutible optic mounted,

bushmaster is making the remingon varmint rifle also.


then there's rock river varmint/predator series rifles, but there's a long wait/ship time if you have to order one.

armalite's T series rifles are good shooters also, but not all shops carry them,

Stag varmint rifles are very good also, and Stag is the company making S&W ARs.

 

[possum]

bushmaster, stag, rra, there are some good places to start, and with them you can't go wrong. i would also suggest the flat top that will allow you to be more flexible with options/optice etc. there are many great models out there by the above companies, i trust my loved ones to bushmaster. the ones that i have owned have served me well.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

WRONG...Stag no longer has ANYTHING to do with Smith & Wesson M&P 15's...

Smith & Wesson and Stag ended their relationship almost a year ago because of out of spec parts from Stag.

 

[tjhjunk]

I would pick up a LMT lower and have it shipped to my FFL and the LMT upper sent to my residence. You would have top shelf carbine that is way more accurate than you are, (at least mine is). A LMT Defender 2000 takes a back seat to no one. I got mine from... http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?display=home
Grant is a great guy and makes sure that everything is as it should be before it leaves his shop.

P.S ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!!!!!

 

[cbrgator]

Smith & Wesson and Stag ended their relationship almost a year ago because of out of spec parts from Stag.

Stag rifles contain out of spec parts? Is this a new occurence? I was about to buy one but this is the first I've heard about that.

 

[blackhawk2000]

I think it's more like after M&P dropped Stag, M&P's had out of spec parts. All the M&P's with bad magwells, are not Stag lowers.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Its true the EARLY production M&P's had out of spec magwells...those were the first ones produced "in house" by S&W...that problem has been fixed.

Stag didn't do S&W any favors...there were plenty of out of spec Stag parts on S&W guns. I'm not saying Stag has out of spec parts on their guns....just that they didn't do S&W any favors.

S&W had some growing pains.....like anybody else is going to have. They have fixed every issue they were having...they don't have anymore out of spec magwells, the gas blocks on the 15T's are pinned, and the FSB's are "F" marked and true flat top bases. They are using LMT bolt carrier groups and the M&P 15's are quite a bit more accurate than other chrome lined AR's...so are the Charles Daly's.

 

[22_Shooter]

They are using LMT bolt carrier groups and the M&P 15's are quite a bit more accurate than other chrome lined AR's...so are the Charles Daly's.

I read on M4carbine, that S&W isn't using LMT BCG's anymore. I think it was Grant that said it actually.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

It appears that you are correct...I had not read that. But he goes on to say that the unnamed company thats making them now is also good quality.

 

[22_Shooter]

Yup, yup.

*reminds self I need to get to ordering that LMT BCG. I always forget to tack it onto an order.

 

[bamabluesman]

Thanks so much for the replies. Gave me a lot to think about. I have some very good scopes on my rimfire rifles that will be quite at home on my future AR. So the $1000 price doesn't include optics. I'm not much of a bench rest guy. 90% of my shooting is done off hand so thats why I don't want a really heavy barrel. I want something all purpose. To shoot standing on my hind legs and from a bench when shooting groups. Im not looking for a .223 rifle to shoot anything past 400 yards. My next purchase after this is going to be a bolt gun in .308 for anything past the 400 yard range. For now I really want an AR while I can still buy one. (Lets face it time is growing short) I can't buy one and save up for another. Any other suggestions you guys have is greatly appreciated. Just want to spend my hard earned money wisely. Thanks.