Looks like I'm heading to NO... What should I take?

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lwsimon

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Looks like I'll be heading out to NO this weekend, with a communications contractor working for FEMA. I'll be essentailly grunt labor, but I was hired with the understanding that I must bring at least one gun with me. Of course, this is not in my job description! :)

So, what would you take? So far I've got an AR and a CZ-52 for my vehicle, and I'm probably going to buy an 870, marine edition if I can find one in town. I'll be working in the French Quarter first, restoring infrastructure, and after that is touch-and-go. I don't expect to be in a firefight, but I want to be prepared just in case. I have a limited budget, but that will change after two weeks there, once I recieve my first check. Then I'll probably blow it all on guns, which will probably be hugely expensive there.

So, I need a new handgun, something durable and reliable, and advise on a shotgun. I'm used to my CZ, I've put 10k or so rounds thru it without a jam, so I'm seriously considering using it as my primary sidearm. Its got the leather tanker holster that will keep it away from scratches, and if it gets damaged or confiscated, no big loss. If I get something new, I'm going ot have to put at least 250 or so roudns thru it before I feel comfortable carrying it. My AR is bone-stock, and I plan to keep it that way. The only thing I'm going to add is a neoprene sling so I can sling it over my back comfortably.

Finally, any general tips? I've never been in an area like this, but I'm looking forward to going. I've got an appointment set up with my doctor for the full "I'm going to Mexico and i'm going to drink the water" set of shots, and my employer is going to provide food/water. I'm bringing a five day supply for myself, just in case, in addition to everything else. I'm driving an SUV, so there's no room for gas tanks unless they're inside the vehicle, and I'm not so sure that is a good idea. Perhaps a trailer with a large farm tank on it? Lots of clothes, 2 sets of rain gear, and sleeping arrangements in my vehicle. Am I missing anything?
 
Ok...? (Col O'Neal voice).

No disrespect, but sit down and think about it there cowboy. Yes, LA is gun friendly. But,

You post mentions nothing but arms arms arms

Whatcha planning on doing there?
 
This is an arms site... I already have the rest covered, I only wanted opinions on the guns part. :) I'll be laying ethernet cable mainly, and setting up routers.
 
Good. Study extra hard about cables under water

The place ain't worth rebuilding. stupid to build underwater anyway.

Sorry, my opinion.

Good Luck.

Have Fun. Next time I'll be sensitive to what opinions you're looking for.
 
Wasn't trying to be an ass, i apologize. I agree the place isn't worth rebuilding, but I just got offered $30/hour, $50/hour overtime to essentially do what I love.
 
Personally, I would think long and hard before taking the long guns -- rifle or shotgun. You're not going as a security force, you're going as a cable installer. Self-defense, sure -- but who is going to guard your SUV with guns and food in it while you're inside working? You can't haul all that iron around while you're stringing cable and hooking up routers.

I think you're better off with your CZ, a lot of ammo, and a backup handgun. I'd go out any buy something inexpensive but reliable in the same caliber as the CZ -- maybe a Hi-Point, or something that it wouldn't break your heart (or your pocketbook) to see lost, stolen, or strayed. I respectfully suggest that under the conditions you outline, your long guns will be more of a target than a defense.
 
Handgun: Glock 17 or Glock 19.

Glocks right out of the box are reliable enough and accurate enough for those conditions. My own preference would be for the Glock 19 (the mid-size) instead of the Glock 17 because it's an inch less and easier to carry.

I don't consider 9mm the ideal round but it's likely to be the most readily available. The minimal recoil allows you to do hammers and doubletaps as needed. It also might be "tradeable" if your co-workers are similarly armed. I like cooperation in such situations. I'm half asleep so I'm reluctant to recommend ammunition beyond Winchester Ranger SXT, the kind marked "Law Enforcement, if you can find it.

I'd take some spare magazines already loaded (six plus one in the pistol is what I'd do) and I'd carry two of them in addition to the one in the pistol.

Shotgun: Remington 870

It works, it's effective, and it's 12 gauge. I'd see if your local WalMart has them in stock and get whatever it is they have. In the situation you describe I'd consider this shotgun merely a tool. The less expensive versions work just as well as the more expensive ones for your situation. Because it's likely to get tossed around a lot I wouldn't invest more than is needed in it.

I'd get either #00 buckshot (the traditional LEO load) or #1 buck, and I'd also get some slugs. I'd load the shotgun with a couple of buck followed by a slug and then buck again. I'd take a few boxes of each with me. If you can get a sidesaddle (more desirable) or an elastic gadget that carries spare shells, I'd put one of them on the shotgun and carry a mix of buck and slugs in it--say four buck and two slugs.

Essentials

Don't forget hearing protection. I'd use one of the electronic earmuffs and wear it at all times on the job. If you go that route be sure to take along several (a lot) of extra batteries. These things eat batteries, especially if you forget to turn them off. I'd also take along a bunch of the little sponge earplugs just in case.

----------

I understand that you're not going there to engage in gunfights, that you'll do everything possible to avoid such situations, but that you need to prepare realistically for a bad situation in which you might be attacked and need to defend yourself. Tonight's television reports on the situation are alarming: they reinforce the wisdom of being prepared for the worst. The worst is what appears to be happening in New Orleans, at least from those reports.

Good luck.
 
Looks like if I go, it will be with some modifications to my original plan. MY CZ-52 is my #1 gun, its accurate, I have plenty of ammo for it, I've practiced with it, and I'm not worried about it getting lost/stolen/destroyed. I'll pick up a Rem 870 at Walmart, and a dozen or so boxes of shells. Hell, I may get two in case I need to loan one to an officer down there - I hear they are under-gunned, and there's nothing wrong with a little good will with the emergency personnel. The AR stays at home, its too fancy and expensive, and would definately be a target.

I am taking the SG with me everywhere, I was told that long arms are OKAY as long as martial law is in effect. I've not confirmed this yet, but I'm told the FEMA paperwork will include exceptions for weaponry working under such conditions. I will make 100% sure I'm kosher though.

A Glock is really too expensive to take to be honest. My CZ is in 7.62 Tokarev, so I'm not going to be able to find another handgun in it's caliber. I may get a 9x18 conversion barrel for it and pick up a Makarov though. Only having to carry one caliber for both guns is a good thing.
 
DONT even think about having gas cans inside your vehicle.
so many ways for that to go wrong.
no roof rack?

for the way things look down there, i dont blame you bringing plenty of guns, but yeah, dont bring more than you can keep an eye on.
 
I'd get a Ruger PC9 or PC 40 and a Ruger handgun that uses the same mags (or in the alternative, you might be able to find a PC9 or 40 that is fitted for Glock Mags - they used to make them, Idon't know if they still do)

Whatever you ultimately do, that combination should be perfect. You have a handgun for when they get real close to you and a very effective police carbine that uses your same mags (makes things easier) and is very effective out to about 75 yards.

Of course, this may be too expensive for you.

One caution though, I would recommend not brining your Makarov as finding ammo for it (in case you actually need to replenish) will be near impossible. Better to have something that is in a common caliber with most everyone else.

Also, I would forget bringing water. Its far easier and more effective to grab your self a back-country water filtration system like a Pur Katadyn (about $59, they can fit in a coat pocket).
 
As we have other interests here, too, I would recommend one of those half-face respirators and appropriate filters. The smell will be ferocious, and laden with things that could make you sick. At the very least, get the face masks with the ear loops, like surgeons wear, some have a thin charcoal layer, which will absorb some of the smell.

Don't attract unwanted attention. Stick to the CZ, and keep it hidden but ready. The round is relatively light, and these things take abuse well (Too bad you don't have a Makarov:D ) You don't have the time to learn a new weapon system anyway. If you do get shot at, returning fire with a pistol will probably encourage to look for easier pickings, and you might need the other hand for a critical task.

If you're going to take stuff to hand out to locals (which could help you some gratitude and less harassment, take a supply of those little bottles of iodine-based water purifying tablets. Packets of gatorade mix. Solid fuel for cooking, maybe (You know those Esbit fuel tabs? Go to the store and pick up a few trays of those grill starting cubes-they're pretty much the same thing, but a lot cheaper. Candy and cheap whistles for the kids. and a car charger and extra battery for your cell phone-people will want you to call loved ones for them. Feminine hygiene products will be popular and scarce, and take up less space than diapers.
 
You may already have it covered, but I'll mention this just in case...

Extra firing pins for the CZ52. It's been my experience that they'll break at the most inopportune time.

;)
 
Okay, here goes:

Gas cans: Yes, I have a roof rack, but I don't want the extra attention running around with cans on top of my car would bring. I know better than to put them inside the vehicle, especially on carpet - fumes, static electricity, heat, all bad things.

Ruger carbine: Good idea, but too expensive

Trade items: Water purification tablets are an excellent idea, I can carry loads of those in little space. Feminine hygene - A few wouldn't hurt, they are light, and I know sanitary napkins make a good wound dressing. I have a coleman dual fuel camp stove I'm bringing, and 5 cans of fuel. I can run it on unleaded if need be. Extra shotgun is high on my list, but rather expensive. First thing I'll buy if I have anything left. Gatorade mix is a good idea as well. Beef jerky? Canned goods, with openners. Candy. Ammunition in common calibers? A couple boxes of .45ACP and 9mm could surely come to good use.

Cell Phone: I have one, but it will be off most of the trip, and hidden. I will deny having it if asked. Besides, I understand cell towers are down and its VERY hard to get through in the NO area. My employer will be providing satellite phones once per day to call family. Car charger is a must.


Other things I've thought of: Power inverter, batteries, empty bottles?

Still brainstorming, will report in in a couple hours.
 
Best of luck to you, and stay safe.

With regards to water, I personally would take an ample personal supply of good, clean bottled water, even if my employer was supposed to supply me with water. There's nothing like clean drinking water when you're working in oppressive heat and humidity.

My backup would be a backpacking filtration system and water purification tablets, but remember that the water on the ground is contaminated with raw sewage, dead animals and dead people who have been dead for days, toxic chemicals from houses and industrial businesses, gasoline and oil seeping from vehicles and submerged gas stations, etc. No filtration system or water purification tablet will deal with all of that, and certainly not for extended volumes, and the filtration / purification process can take a lot of time.

Some disposable masks sandwiched between some car air fresheners (the kind you hang from the rearview mirror) will help deal with the stench of rotting flesh and sewage if you have to work near such items.

A good 12 ga. shotgun is like the Leatherman multitool of firearms -- so versatile. I would take Slugs and 00 buck. I like the AR-15 for its higher capacity and longer reach-out-and-touch capability, so that's a tough choice between the 12 ga. and the AR. I guess you have to figure out the ranges and numbers of threats you are likely to encounter.

For me, my sidearm would likely be a mid-size Glock, simply because it's what I carry, it's utterly reliable, and I shoot it well. My advice would be to carry a handgun you've trained with, shoot well, and you know works reliably.

Good luck.
 
If I were in your shoes, I would forego the shotgun. You can't work with your hands and carry a shotgun at the same time. The only way that is going to work is if the workers have a guard.

A used .357 would better serve your needs. A used Glock better yet. One thing you seem to be forgetting or at least didn't mention is a holster. You need to carry your gun 24/7 and have the ability to carry it concealed. For that you need a decent holster and gun belt. The cheapest, off the rack, gun belt out there is a "Wilderness" belt. About $40. Holster price would depend more on the gun.

Once you get paid, you can pick up a better gun. If your from out of state, it seems like it would be a lot easier to pick up a shotgun than to upgrade your handgun.
 
Silly question: Where are you going to put all of the long-guns when you are working? It would seem that storing weapons in a vehicle in the current situation in NO would be a really bad idea. Personally i would go with *one* pistol and a a couple of magazines.
 
I would get some body armor and wear it. You have nothing for stopping incoming rounds. You can purchase body armor for less then a rifle.
 
I would get some body armor and wear it. You have nothing for stopping incoming rounds. You can purchase body armor for less then a rifle.
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea. However he needs it today, and finding a properly fitting vest IN STOCK at any retailor is going to be a tall order and will probably cost a *lot* more than a rifle.
 
A couple jars of vicks. If the smell gets too horrific, which it probably will, you can pack your nostrils with vicks and it will help. Have you thought about water purifiers, purification tablets? Go to your local military surplus and get some MREs and pack them away for emergency, wound dressings, etc. have a couple knives, spares are good. Buy a cheap .38 or .357 as a backup to your cz. I'd probably forget the long guns, as someone else has said they'll end up being a source of something else to worry about for you. Get yourself a map of the area on the way in and bring a compass. It could help you in a pinch.

How soon are you bugging out? I have an older safariland IIIA that just hangs in the closet. If you have a few days I can overnight it to you. The only thing I ask is you return it when you no longer need it. You can find them on EBAY too but I'm betting you have no time for that.

Good luck to you.

I notice someone else mentiones water purification. Yes, nothing will work on the flood water so don't even try it but you may be able to find other sources if it becomes necessary. For example,water still in sealed heating systems is one. It may be black and rusty but it will purify. Bring lots of extra filters.

Latex gloves, a lot. It would lessen your chances of illness. The place is a gigantic cesspool.
 
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Not Worth Saving?

NO was one of the greatest cities in the country. Great food, great imes, and a lot of history. Been there quite a few times. Thanks for trying to put it back together. It's always been a little dangerous, but now the animals are out of the cages. Be very careful and very discreet. You do not want any trouble with whatever law is left, and remember, if they declare martial law, that's another set of rules entirely. Having said all that, how about a nice lightweight S&W or Taurus pocket size revolver in an intimidating caliber?
 
I second the Vick's...the smell of dead things will knock your socks off. I've been to the French Quarter many times, and it had a 3rd World aroma on it's best of days BEFORE Katrina.

Speaking of socks....take lots and lots, and at least one extra pair of good work boots. Wet feet for extended periods is bad juju. Also, changing-out socks/boots at midday is an unbelievable pick-me-up. Laundry facilities will probably be nonexistent for some time to come, so plenty of clean clothes will be essential. I'd also take some towels, you may be using the "Field expedient" method of bathing for quite some time. The weather down there will be hot/humid for another month or so. I'd also pack some liquid laundry soap as you may very well find it necessary to hand wash your clothes...don't forget clothes pins and some rope.

Lots of insect repellant!!!!!

I would keep a small bug out bag seprate from my other gear and handy in case you need to evac on foot in a hurry...fire, more flood, more riots.

I'd also strongly recommend a mousegun...I could easily see you suddenly confronted by thugs inside your workspace since you'll normally be concentrating on tasks at hand. I'd give some thought to the LE mindset down there. If you find it necessary to use deadly force in a clearcut threat situation I wouldn't worry too much about overzealous prosecution. NOPD is notorious for it's attitude of "BFD, dipstick had it coming, have a nice day sir." before the rampaging hoardes.....I'm pretty sure it's much more of an open season situation now, not that I'm advocating a wild west mentality.

If you do go, stay alert to stay safe!
 
+1 on the Vicks. I've worked a lot of scenes that would give most people nightmares. They had one thing in common - STENCH. Be sure and run by a local drugstore before you leave and pick up a few of the small pocket size tins of Vicks. Put one in you pocket as soon as you leave and keep it there. You may find that you need it unexpectedly and can't run back to the truck for the "family size".

As to weapons, your CZ should be more than up to the job and coming from an LEO background, I'll say it so no one else has to risk being labelled "anti-LEO", let me say that the 7.62x25 may come in handy if you find you're having to defend against former "officers" :barf: still wearing *certain* parts of their duty gear. 'Nuff said. If you have time (& cash) enough place an order with George at Makarov.com for a couple of boxes of FMJ and a couple of boxes of JHP. Extra mags would be good and at the very least a replacement factory firing pin. Aftermarket would be better if they're not out. These can be found in the ammo and CZ-52 sections of the web page respectively. If you're in W. Va you can pick it up rather than have it shipped. Also, if you don't already have one buy (and use) a lanyard. That'll prevent your pistol from taking unauthorized trips without you at the most inopportune time.

Body armor wouldn't be a bad idea but you won't be able to work in anything that would give rifle class protection. A level II or IIIA is often bulky enough. If you're in Indiana, drop me a line re: where to pick some up on the cheap.

Other than that water, water, water!

Be Careful,
Mike
 
finding a properly fitting vest IN STOCK at any retailor is going to be a tall order and will probably cost a *lot* more than a rifle.
Click to expand...
www.galls.com, large inventory in-stock, reasonable price for level IIA vests and they will ship overnight.

While your at the galls site, look at boots. I'd get at least two pair. they won't last long in the damp environment. And plenty of socks. If I learned nothing else in the Marines it is to keep your feet dry.

Weapon; I'd go with a used .357 revolver or sig auto. Get something you won't miss if it's lost. Don't forget a good retention holster, nylon, not leather. Nylon can be sanitized. And lots and lots of cleaning supplies. You are going to be cleaning it daily.

About 50 gallons of hand sanitizer would be good too.

Good luck and be careful. Coming home is your first priority.
 
This triggers questions.

Is true martial law declared by the state or federal government?

If it is then are you even allowed to carry weapons?

If you are allowed to carry weapons then your first priority should be to carry something that is very reliable for personal protection. If your CZ 52 has proven itself to work flawlessly even when dirty then you should carry it and 2 extra magazines and a couple of boxes of ammunition. If it has had any hiccups at all in the past then you should put your money into a Glock. If it takes your entire arms budget to do this it should be your priority. As has been pointed out a long gun can't be used while you work. Unless your prospective employer intends for the employees to stand rotating guard and doesn't intend to provide the shotguns then your money is best spent on the handgun.

BTW most of the what else to bring discussions are being carried out here at StatTac if you're interested.
 
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