I completely agree with you but that is my point about the seriousness of the issue. You have a shooter that is told the rule 2 times to rack his firearms. Then while people are downrange he touches his firearms and points them downrange. The blatant disregard for the rules and the safety of others is extreme, so my response was extreme. My typical professional, logical and courteous demeanor is gone after safety is repeatedly ignored and I am a potential recipient of harm due to that disregard of safety. The tirade was maybe 5 minutes but because this guy would not accept the rules, we couldn't continue shooting until he would comply or leave. We don't have a range officer, so it was just me and another guy trying to convince him to follow the rules. That is what shut down the range and wasted everyone's time.
Lost My Cool at Range Today
- Thread starter Chief TC
- Start date
Scrapiron45
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My apologies Chief, for any misasumptions made on my part.
My concern was primarily aimed at avoiding confrontations at a gun range.
We only allow vetted individuals to use our range and they're required to complete a safety course (4 hrs) and a stop the bleed class (3 hrs). It's surprising how many walk away when they become aware of this requirement.
My concern was primarily aimed at avoiding confrontations at a gun range.
We only allow vetted individuals to use our range and they're required to complete a safety course (4 hrs) and a stop the bleed class (3 hrs). It's surprising how many walk away when they become aware of this requirement.
S.Crockett
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Don’t forget firearms, especially rifles, vary. If magazine fed, mag is OUT of weapon and on table. Action is fully LOCKED BACK so the chamber can be visually and manually inspected (with the pinky finger) by anyone on the line.
Plus, some ranges - though not all - now require the use and insertion of chamber flags in the actions before anyone is allowed to go down range to the target berms.
Just adding the above, FYI.
cslinger
Member
On the subject of chamber flags, I keep a bunch of colored zip ties in my range bags to act as cheap disposable flags.
Also yes. Step back away from bench and absolutely make sure mags out.
Also yes. Step back away from bench and absolutely make sure mags out.
No apology needed. Just wanted to clarify the scenario as I too agree, confrontations and firearms is not a good mix. The sad part is this guy attended our club orientation/training, so his behavior is beyond ridiculous. I think the training you require is great. I am all for training and even if you have done it a lot, you learn something new or something you forgot.
And reproduce!
We used to have a private range here that had a 50 yd rimfire firing line and about 20 yd right of it a 500m silhouette range was layed out. Obviously we had to walk down range to reset the silhouettes up again. Several of us were there shooting the iron and a couple guys at the rimfire range. We called range cold, guns open and not handled until we got back from resetting the targets. We got back to about the 300 yd line and the rimfire guys started shooting at the crap they had brought along to shoot. You might be able to imagine the polite conversation we had once we got close enough to holler at them!
“No problem, we’re way over here and besides they’re just .22s”! That really got us going. Needless to say they left very shortly!
“No problem, we’re way over here and besides they’re just .22s”! That really got us going. Needless to say they left very shortly!
armoredman
Member
Unmonitored city maintained outdoor range here. There have been some interesting times where people weren't following the rules, but 999 times out of 1000 everyone is spot on.
Once...it was my turn...I was focusing on getting the right group with my SAA and was dialed into reloading the little hogleg, then putting another 5 in the target. I fired one round and I heard people exclaim, "Who's shooting, isn't there a guy downrange?"
Huh?
Yes, the guy at the far end had apparently called for a cold line, and I had never heard it, AND, to my eternal shame, was so focused I didn't SEE him walk down range, though where he was was easily 45 degrees off my right.
After the incident, and my apologies, AND packing up to immediately leave...several of the other shooters told me they hadn't heard him call a cold line at all, just assumed he had because he started to walk down range. If we'd had an RSO that wouldn't have happened. if I'd had the eyesight God gave a flea, it also wouldn't have happened. And, if the guy had done what we have done for YEARS on that range, get everyone on the line to say or wave Cold Line...and watch them step back, THEN walk your happy rear down range. Took me a few weeks to get back out there.
Once...it was my turn...I was focusing on getting the right group with my SAA and was dialed into reloading the little hogleg, then putting another 5 in the target. I fired one round and I heard people exclaim, "Who's shooting, isn't there a guy downrange?"
Huh?
Yes, the guy at the far end had apparently called for a cold line, and I had never heard it, AND, to my eternal shame, was so focused I didn't SEE him walk down range, though where he was was easily 45 degrees off my right.
After the incident, and my apologies, AND packing up to immediately leave...several of the other shooters told me they hadn't heard him call a cold line at all, just assumed he had because he started to walk down range. If we'd had an RSO that wouldn't have happened. if I'd had the eyesight God gave a flea, it also wouldn't have happened. And, if the guy had done what we have done for YEARS on that range, get everyone on the line to say or wave Cold Line...and watch them step back, THEN walk your happy rear down range. Took me a few weeks to get back out there.
Rush hour traffic and your experience proves self defense comes in many ways
edwardware
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- 4,424
And so did they, and therein lies the problem.
Was anyone present equiped with information (like "the range rules say. . .") or was everyone assuming?
At my range, you would be reprimanded for asking a member to touch a firearm while the range was cold, and 'they' would be in perfect compliance for refusing, leaving them lay on the bench, muzzles downrange, until the range was called Hot.
I assume you know that. . . but we all know what assuming gets you.
"Unload all weapons"
"Open all actions"
"Drop all magazines"
"Make the line safe and step from the bench"
"While the line is safe, do not handle any weapons
- . . . at any time
- . . . for any reason
- . . . anywhere
"Stay behind the White Line."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Strictly enforced by the RSO(s) who stay on the line.
Very few willful violations -- and those are dealt with immediately.
Immediate Ejection/Brought before the Board/Loss of membership if "attitude" displayed.
"Open all actions"
"Drop all magazines"
"Make the line safe and step from the bench"
"While the line is safe, do not handle any weapons
- . . . at any time
- . . . for any reason
- . . . anywhere
"Stay behind the White Line."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Strictly enforced by the RSO(s) who stay on the line.
Very few willful violations -- and those are dealt with immediately.
Immediate Ejection/Brought before the Board/Loss of membership if "attitude" displayed.
Interesting how old threads get revived sometimes. Not sure you understand what I assumed. In my post, I wrote I assume "most" ranges employ a rule to rack firearms when people go downrange. I know our rules and I did not assume anything and I was the one telling the violators to follow the rules. Either you are not understanding the situation or I am not understanding what you are trying relay.
So you do not deal with a safety situation? You walk away from it? I think deadly safety behavior must be addressed and I think most would agree.
As a follow up to the this whole story, I was completely disappointed by the range leadership response. They basically did nothing. Told the guy not to do it again and made him take the orientation course again. That was a very weak response in my book.
W.E.G.
Member
That's pretty much standard reaction at most clubs where nobody was actually hurt, and no property was destroyed.
As much as you might want to give them a firehose of language at the time, that's when you gotta be extra careful and not raise your voice or use language you wouldn't use in a formal situation. Because calling someone out on a rules-violation is a formal situation.
Sometimes you just gotta document it and leave before it becomes emotional. Do your duty and report it through channels. If you are dissatisfied with how the decision-makers handle things, become one of the decision makers. There are always two sides to every story. Decision-makers have to listen to both sides. Even when people are in the wrong.
It was formal the first 2 times. I agree, me losing my cool was not going to solve the problem but an understandable reaction when firearms are pointed at you and what appears to be 2 inexperienced knuckleheads handling them as well.
Once I did calm down. I documented it all and passed it the range manager and he dealt with it. In this instance, there were not 2 sides since all evidence showed they did not follow the rules and handled firearms while people were downrange. And they admitted as such. I will disagree with you that just because nobody got hurt or property destroyed that they did not deserve some sort of disciplinary action. The behavior was a safety issue that could have resulted in severe injury or death. While i appreciate the efforts of our range manager and it was good to have the violator take orientation again, this is of a magnitude where he should have received some sort of suspension since it was reckless and negligent. I understand we all have our own opinions about how to handle things. My leadership experiences and holding others accountable tells me that I would have given him at least a 3 month suspension. Not so much as a punishment but to show what a serious infraction this was because he would not follow the rules after they were told to do so and creating a safety issue. The youngster's attitude and how he responded wrongly multiple times is what warranted some discipline.
I'm not the range officer and I agree, but I see something that threatens my life and I'm 100% all done and leaving. I might tell the range why I had to evacuate, or mention to the range officer on my way out the door, but yeah - I don't run the range and I'm not obligated to address the safety risk personally, IMHO - the range has already failed me if I see that and I'm 100% out. For all I know those people are so stupid and on drugjs, that they may get offended and just shoot me, to me I've already seen enough to think they are likely that stupid. They've already proven themselves to be far beyond stupid, and I don't participate with gross stupidity if there is any other way to keep myself from getting imvolved at all. I want less studpid in my life, not more. I don't want those people who can't follow rudamentary rules to know who I am, or have any cause to take any interest in me in any way. I'm not concerned with them, I'm concerned with me, and the people in my life who depend on me.
BreechFace
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- Mar 2, 2020
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Well your story sounds like you gave your correction multiple opportunities to get through the grey matter and create a firing of the synapse, but no luck. Could you have handled it better than a 30 minute tirade, probably; do I blame you, not really. I wouldn't feel like getting shot in the back while posting a target down range either.
Good on you reporting them, and good on the range master revoking their membership.
I'm sure they'll be whining about how unfair that is. We need to get back to actions have consequences, and need to get there in a hurry. Be it on the range, public, schools, and especially the home. The entitlement of a person being right regardless of facts established in our society is crazy!
Good on you reporting them, and good on the range master revoking their membership.
I'm sure they'll be whining about how unfair that is. We need to get back to actions have consequences, and need to get there in a hurry. Be it on the range, public, schools, and especially the home. The entitlement of a person being right regardless of facts established in our society is crazy!
IWAC
Member
One day, I had the misfortune of being at our range when a local Police Department was doing qualifications. It seemed the Lieutenant demanded the entire range be closed , but the manager said that it was a public range, and refused. I watched, and saw some of the worst/unsafe gun handling I have ever witnessed. I packed up my stuff and left. 
Another day, there was a man shooting, and at that time, they used angle iron for target stands...the first target position was at 7 yards. A woman shooting at the station next to him hit one of the angle irons, and the bullet ricocheted, and hit him in the left thigh. Well, as you can guess, it was a Chinese fire drill, and nobody thought to identify the woman! I dealt with the man shortly after, and thought he was under the influence of pain killers for the wound. Not so! He was just unintelligent! 3 inches higher, and 2 inches to the right, and he wouldn't have been able to shallow his gene pool any more! But! They come to our ranges, where they (mostly) follow the rules, and have a good time like the rest of us, or are just at the wrong place at the wrong time! One might say "The unluckiest human being in the Universe at that moment!" It's like in Boxing...Protect yourself at ALL times! But...now the 7 yard target position is no more, and the target frames are 1 X 2 lumber!
Another day, there was a man shooting, and at that time, they used angle iron for target stands...the first target position was at 7 yards. A woman shooting at the station next to him hit one of the angle irons, and the bullet ricocheted, and hit him in the left thigh. Well, as you can guess, it was a Chinese fire drill, and nobody thought to identify the woman! I dealt with the man shortly after, and thought he was under the influence of pain killers for the wound. Not so! He was just unintelligent! 3 inches higher, and 2 inches to the right, and he wouldn't have been able to shallow his gene pool any more! But! They come to our ranges, where they (mostly) follow the rules, and have a good time like the rest of us, or are just at the wrong place at the wrong time! One might say "The unluckiest human being in the Universe at that moment!" It's like in Boxing...Protect yourself at ALL times! But...now the 7 yard target position is no more, and the target frames are 1 X 2 lumber!
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Doc Samson
Member
The SRO at one of my previous schools was also on the SWAT team. He and I would chat frequently about his training and he would occasionally vent about how lackluster the qualifications were for police. At one point, he said "I've never seen you shoot, but based on the conversations we have, I'd rather have you guarding my back than some of the @$$holes on my SWAT team." Wasn't sure how to respond to that!
Clarifying again for the the new posters here that I lost my cool for about 5 minutes. We couldn’t get the range hot again until these knuckleheads complied with the rules.
I can understand your perspective.
hawg
Member
I would too.
.38 Special
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I recently went through a somewhat similar situation, but from the other side: I was the one engaged in "unsafe" behavior, and the other guy lost his temper and raged at me. Eventually it all got settled down - the range had a rule requiring actions open with a safety flag during ceasefires, and the gentleman was unfamiliar with flintlocks - but it was brought home to me (again) that "tirades" are almost always unproductive.
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