Lou Dobbs poll about deadly force
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FullEffect1911
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So, you walk in on someone (lets say your own home here) who is in your house with the silverware and the candlesticks. Alright, what is his intent? You just saw his/her face, they are robbing you. Not to many would want to get caught when committing a crime. Can you guarantee he/she doesn't have a weapon and is willing to use it on you? What is he/she just flips you the bird and walks out, solid in the idea that there is nothing you can legally do to stop them. Tackle them and you may get yourself stabbed or otherwise killed. You mean to tell me you can prove someone's intent enough to risk your own life when the chips are down? Hesitation is often quoted as enough to get you killed.
This is exactly why I am so pro castle doctrine.
Now for the neighbors house... if they aren't home call the cops. Confrontation is and should be a last resort.
FullEffect1911
Member
sorry, apparently refresh is enough to double post.
The poll was worded as to eliminate a bunch of "yes" answers by throwing in the part about shooting someone robbing a neighbor's house . . . but STILL . . . the numbers are overwhelming still.
Unscientific as it is, it is patently obvious that the huge majority of Americans responding are sick and tired of thugs getting away with their crap.
If 911 calls and the police can't catch 'em, and . . .
If the prosecutors keep cutting deals with 'em, and
If the courts keep freeing 'em real fast, and
If our laws don't deter 'em, and . . .
If so many of 'em are so brutal and uncaring about human life and the pain they inflict . . .
Well . . . it looks like Americans are getting closer to once again become our brother's keeper in all respects.
That ain't so bad either . . . considering how bad things are getting for the good guys vs. the law breakers!
T.
Unscientific as it is, it is patently obvious that the huge majority of Americans responding are sick and tired of thugs getting away with their crap.
If 911 calls and the police can't catch 'em, and . . .
If the prosecutors keep cutting deals with 'em, and
If the courts keep freeing 'em real fast, and
If our laws don't deter 'em, and . . .
If so many of 'em are so brutal and uncaring about human life and the pain they inflict . . .
Well . . . it looks like Americans are getting closer to once again become our brother's keeper in all respects.
That ain't so bad either . . . considering how bad things are getting for the good guys vs. the law breakers!
T.
distortion9
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And I completely understand you. But, again...this is not addressed in the question or it would include, "he may or may not be armed."
USE OF PHYSICAL FORCE IN DEFENSE
OF PREMISES AND IN DEFENSE OF A
PERSON IN THE COURSE OF A BURGLARY
(Penal Law Section 35.20)
1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he
reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he
reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such
other person of a crime involving damage to premises. He may use any degree
of physical force, other than deadly physical force,which he reasonably
believes to be necessary for such purpose, and he may use deadly physical
force if he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the
commission or attempted commission of arson.
You may never use deadly physical force against another person who is
committing criminal mischief (intentionally damaging property) to your
property, or the property of another person.
You may never use deadly physical force against another person who is
stealing property (no matter what the value of the property) when it does not fit
into the category of robbery.
Do not use deadly physical force against a fleeing person. Leave the
apprehension of a suspected felon to the police.
kungfuhippie
Member
That's lucky. Doesn't make it so for everyone. The poll asked if you should have the right. I think that once someone becomes a criminal they are making the risk of getting shot a problem. Anyone entering my house without permission by force is assumed to be armed and dangerous and I will take measures to protect me and mine. If I knew for a fact that someone was buglarizing a neighbor's home I'd do what I felt was correct to help them. It's called being a good Samaritan. I'm not saying I blast a guy over a TV, but I wouldn't just look the other way or "be a good witness"
distortion9
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Sure, Suffolk County N.Y. copied and pasted directly from their Pistol Licensing Handbook. I would provide you with a direct link to the pdf file and the S.C.P.D. website but I'm having problems pulling it up. Here is a link to the HTML version.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache...ounty+pistol+license&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Again, my main problem with the question is the vague use of the word "Burglar". To me it implies an empty house or dwelling especially since it includes a neighbors home. The laws change when the house or dwelling is occupied.
Funny I had a situation occur kinda like the same thing in Pasadena. I decided not to shoot him because the burglar had no weapons. I fired a couple shots into the ground and he dropped the goods and took off running. My neighbor at the time was thankful for that and we continued to live at our residences without another problem. Now if the gentlemen that were killed had weapons or attempted to attack the shooter then its justified. On the flip side of this coin, if there was a burglar ON MY PROPERTY I wouldnt hesitate to use deadly force armed or unarmed, thats the state law here in Texas, but on someone else's property and not armed I wouldnt shoot 'em.
SEMO Shooter
Member
Entitled to, ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Your local prosecuted just might not think it's legal.
Our laws should not offer protection to criminals that are in our home or on our property. They are CRIMINALS and they have put their own lives at risk by the illegal acts they are committing.
You never know what kind of lunatic the burglar or thief might be. This link is to another thread. This guy was a killer. You should not have to defend your actions against criminals.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/9499046p-9410028c.html
Our laws should not offer protection to criminals that are in our home or on our property. They are CRIMINALS and they have put their own lives at risk by the illegal acts they are committing.
You never know what kind of lunatic the burglar or thief might be. This link is to another thread. This guy was a killer. You should not have to defend your actions against criminals.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/9499046p-9410028c.html
distortion9
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Nooo....there's a very good chance that I would commit a felony
.Again, the question is too vague for me to comfortably answer...too many variables.
P.S. I'd rather fight a brandishing charge then a murder rap.
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Whats the problem?
I'd say most new plasma or LCD TVs exceed the value of a burglar's life.
I am under no delusion that the police are good for much other than taking reports after the fact, writing speeding tickets, and dressing up like ninjas on the tax payer's dime. They can not be counted on for protection or stolen goods recovery.
Some times we have to take out the trash on our own.
Dead burglars are a benefit to society as a whole.
The benefit (and deterence) would be even greater if we parted them out for organs, but that is another discussion for another day...
-T
Brad Johnson
Member
Correct. I will not kill them for stealing my stuff. I will kill them because they are a malevolent, loathsome, utter waste of humanity who has broken into my home and is putting me and my family at risk.
Brad
jakemccoy
Member
M2 Carbine wrote:
Based on the comments in this thread, YOU could be mistaken for a burglar/robber who needs to be shot. Be careful.
SEMO Shooter
Member
Well stated Brad. Your words express my feelings.
M2 Carbine
member
You didn't miss the memo, you just live in the wrong state.
In TX you can use deadly force to protect or recover property and we like it that way.
You are going to chase down a criminal and tackle him?
Good luck with that.
In most cases a LEO can not shoot a property thief but in TX (within boundaries) a citizen can.
M2 Carbine
member
Actually no, not in this case, but in a less controlled situation I guess that could be possible.
Things are a little different around here from many places.
You do not go on anyone's property unless you have permission. It's just not done.
If I saw someone in my woods (which never happens), of course I wouldn't shoot them, but they would see a gun while they explained what they were doing there. And they would be told firmly that trespassers could be accidental shot.
So when I'm looking out for my neighbor's place I am the only one that's legally there. Anyone else had better be in a UPS truck or the meter reader, or some such.
1911RjB
Member
YES
If someone who robbed a house knew the ocupational hazard of robbing someones house was the possibility of getting shot, I think the precent of break-in's in the country would probly drop. I'd just call it an ocupational hazard of being a thief... and call it a day.
distortion9
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Wouldn't be the first time.
When you live in a state with strict gun laws, and you're not one to turn a blind eye, sometimes you have to whatever you can to get the job done.
M2 Carbine
member
Buddy I hear that.
You have to do your best with what you've got.
My admiration for not turning a blind eye.
jakemccoy
Member
M2 Carbine wrote:
One of your neighbors might not know the deal you have going there. Here's one of a million possible scenarios that could go awry:
You're armed. You're on your neighbor's property taking care of it. Another neighbor, who doesn't know the deal, comes over with shotgun in hand to see what's going on. He sees you and sees you’re armed. You don’t see him. He doesn’t recognize you. You pull your weapon at the last second after you see him. Things get ugly because we have here a neighbor who is using deadly force to protect his neighbor’s home.
The job of law makers and interpreters is to imagine possible scenarios that are outside of their small world. If everybody contemplates this issue based on every scenaio going right, two things happen. First, we ignore the real world, which is always bad. Second, we end up with a sweeping set of dangerous laws.
Recall that the poll asked about using deadly force to protect a neighbor's home.
One of your neighbors might not know the deal you have going there. Here's one of a million possible scenarios that could go awry:
You're armed. You're on your neighbor's property taking care of it. Another neighbor, who doesn't know the deal, comes over with shotgun in hand to see what's going on. He sees you and sees you’re armed. You don’t see him. He doesn’t recognize you. You pull your weapon at the last second after you see him. Things get ugly because we have here a neighbor who is using deadly force to protect his neighbor’s home.
The job of law makers and interpreters is to imagine possible scenarios that are outside of their small world. If everybody contemplates this issue based on every scenaio going right, two things happen. First, we ignore the real world, which is always bad. Second, we end up with a sweeping set of dangerous laws.
Dorryn
Member
Vote early, vote often.
Chester32141
Member
Yes 94% 15960
No 6% 1068
Total Votes: 17028
Double Tap Center Mass ...
No 6% 1068
Total Votes: 17028
Double Tap Center Mass ...
SEMO Shooter
Member
We can "What if?" until the end of time. Criminals make the choice to be criminals and deserve to be treated as such.
Cornman.
Let me enlighten you.
I work in Law Enforcement. I'm not LEO but support staff.
Every night I work, I get the fingerprints of everyone booked into the County Jail.
Our average is about 225 bookings a day.
I have to run a criminal history on the offenders. Without fail, every night I see people who have 10, 20 , 30 or 80 arrests in their history. It's usually a mixed bag; petit theft, assault, drugs, battery etc.
The criminal justice may be flawed, but we can't keep everyone we arrest in jail permanently, so these bad actors usually end up back on the street pretty quickly.
MAYBE, just MAYBE if these folks knew that that the "people" are tired of living in fear, and that they have declared open season on them, it MIGHT deter a few.
Probably not, but it's worth a shot.
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