Love my AR but the trigger needs some help...

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speaksoftly

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So I've come to the conclusion that Smith and Wesson puts old Sigma triggers on their AR's. ;-)

Ok it's not that bad but my M&P-15T needs some trigger work. It's got about a 7-8lb trigger pull with some serious creep. I'm wanting to start doing 3-gun with the rifle but still am using it for non competition purposes. Basically what I want is a good trigger that will be competition friendly but that isn't going to be so light that I am paranoid of an AD. Opinions welcome. Thanks

-Marcos
 
Rock River arms National Match trigger is tough to beat.
 
+1

I have a RRA 2-stage match trigger and have no complaints. But you'll get a bunch who will say that the RRA two-stage trigger wont last. Of course...but its a heck of lot less expensive than a Geissele or a Jewell. Even Timney trigger aint cheap. I have used my RRA 2-stage for exactly 585 rounds so far and it still measures and breaks the same as the day I installed it. Go figure!
 
So I've come to the conclusion that Smith and Wesson puts old Sigma triggers on their AR's. ;-)

Marcos you owe me a key board!


I would look real hard at a single stage Geissele. Getting a 2 stage Geissele for my high power rifle was about the best thing I've done. I also own 3 RRA 2 stage triggers WOP tuned which are not as good as the Geissle.
 
Marcos you owe me a key board!


I would look real hard at a single stage Geissele. Getting a 2 stage Geissele for my high power rifle was about the best thing I've done. I also own 3 RRA 2 stage triggers WOP tuned which are not as good as the Geissle.

Haha sorry about that keyboard.

I took a look at the Geissle triggers and the Super Semi Auto is only $170 and the RRA Two stage is $120. Not a price difference that I would worry about as I only plan on buying once. So is the Geissle really that much better than the RRA? If so then please send details.
 
The Rock River NM triggers are a great value.

The Geissle costs more, but are an overall great product. For shooting 3 gun, you'll probably want to get a single-stage trigger.
 
I cleaned and lubed my hammer and trigger pins with 3000 grit sandpaper. I also deburred my sear, trigger, and hammer surfaces and then put in a yellow JP trigger spring and have noticed a ton of difference for 10 bucks. Also tested it with some 5.56 ammo and all the primers went off the first time.
 
I don't mean this as a knock on anyone, but it just drives me crazy when a guy can dump all sorts of money into their AR when it comes to the parts that make it look tacticool, but they want to skimp on the heart of the rifle.

There are plenty of good triggers out there. The RRA NM is a good bang for the buck, but the longevity of the FCG is questionable. There's just no telling how long they will last. I can say that I've never had one last more than 3000 rounds. It was mentioned above that an RRA kit has lasted over 500 rounds without problems. If you consider that a lot of shooting the number may mean something to you. I put 700 rounds through my AR just this past Sunday. For me, a trigger doesn't have a good track record until its seen 5000 rounds.

Some are also going to talk about getting their trigger done by Bill Springfield. Springfield does trigger jobs on parts after the hardening process is done on the parts. This is why his modified triggers have been hit and miss. On some, he cuts through the hardening and on some he doesn't. You just can't tell if this has happened. I'm not knocking Springfield, it's just a pitfall of the process. The same with the guy that posted above about going over the parts with a 3000 grit abrasive and going to a lighter spring. He may or may not have cut through the hardened layer of steel. If he did, his trigger job isn't going to last 1000 rounds.

The only real advise that I can give you is this....don't just go with lighter springs on a rifle that you will have to depend on. Sooner or later a light spring is going to give you trouble. Don't count on modified parts, for the reasons stated above. If you can't afford a trigger kit that was cut from the beginning and hardened after cutting to be what it is, just avoid it, and stay with what you have for now.

If you need a trigger for gaming, the Geissele Super Semi is hard to beat. There are also the triggers from Timney and Wilson. For my field rifle, I prefer the Geissele SSA or SSA-E because I need to be able to rely on these. What sets the SSA triggers apart from all others is that they attain their pull weight and feel through geometry, NOT the use of lighter springs. If you look at the springs that come with most kits and compare them to the springs that come with Geissele triggers, you will see that the Geissele kit comes with full power springs. This makes the FCG more reliable and safer.

Please understand that I'm not trying to knock anyone's equipment. I've just been there and done that when it comes to AR triggers and am just hoping that I might be able to spare someone some of my negative experiences.

Triggers are like any other piece of equipment. It's usually best to "buy once, cry once."
 
my smith also had a bad trigger, so I put in a Chip McCormick. Alot better but not creep free in my particular rifle. I have standard Armalite now that is pretty darned good. I have heard good things about the Daniel Defense single stage trigger.
 
The RRA 2 stage triggers I have were tuned by WOP. Granted these are nice triggers and they break very nice. I did have a problem with one of the triggers during a match and it cost me some points. I had my spare RRA with me and was able to get the gun back up and running.

I bought a Geissele 2 stage to try out. The rules say the triggers have to be no less than 4.5 lbs. in pull weight. This includes both stages together. The triggers are weighed with weights for some matches. I thought the Geissele was not going to make weight but it did. The second stage was just so smooth it felt lighter than it really was.

I have the Geissele on the service rifle I use for a full course which includes using open sights out to 600 yards. I use a RRA on my high mileage service rifle which is used for reduced distance matches. This rifle is also a loaner rifle if someone needs a rifle.
 
I would give serious consideration to the American Trigger Corp AR Gold trigger. It has a very, very clean break and super short reset. Yes it is expensive but as others have said buying the best one time beat buying several sub par triggers.
 
I should have mentioned something above. All of these triggers are kind of getting lumped into one big category.

Many after market triggers are advertised or represented as being match triggers. The Geissele SSA or SSA-E are NOT match triggers. They are intended to be duty triggers. The actual pull on them really isn't all that light. They are just very smooth and their perceived pull feels lighter than they really are.
 
Geissele is the way to go.

RRA seems ok at first but they tend to go single stage pretty quickly.
 
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+1 again for the RRA Two Stage trigger.
I have shot over 1000 rounds of out of my .308 and it still breaks just as clean as round 1.
 
For a milspec type single stage trigger at a fair price you might want to give the Spike's Battle NiB coated FCG a look.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st-battle-trigger-set-p-425.html


Also, I like the LWRC NiB coated single stage FCG:

http://www.lwrci.com/p-39-enhanced-fire-control-group-assembly.aspx

I have one of each. The pull weight on the Spikes is about 6#. The LWRC is about 6 1/2#. I like the LWRC a bit better.

For a range rifle either could be reduced to about 4# using the JP Rifles "yellow" spring set.
 
I've heard good things about the Wilson TTU, and it's gone thru one reviewers use with 10,000 repetitions and no change at all.

What most triggers need is smoothness, and limited travel. Almost all the high end triggers and a good many civilian bolt gun triggers have a travel adjustment screw. If the adjustment takes out 80% of the creep, it takes out 80% of the grit in the travel, too.

My AGP lower has a screw located in the gap, which limits the trigger bar travel. After assembly, the lower had what you'd expect from a Stag LPK, a long gritty trigger. Then I adjusted it and it became a short, crisp one with almost no creep or grit. I didn't change the pull, of course, but for a field or duty gun, a hair trigger with 2.5 pound weight is already known to have problems with primers.

Mine came free with the lower, installing that 40c screw will save a lot of shooters $150.
 
Tirod: I have read many of your posts and on balance I think they are well thought out and generally knowledgeable however:

The issue I have with "adjustment screws" is they improve trigger pull by limiting sear engagement and this is potentially dangerous. Given the tolerances of an AR restricting the sear engagement means the safety engagement becomes much more critical.

ARs with stock type hammers have no "safety notch" to catch the hammer if the sear engagement fails like if the gun takes a fall or a hard knock. Limiting sear engagement may also prevent reliable, consistent safe transfer of the hammer from the disconnector to the sear.

I suggest NEVER screwing around with the FCG unless you REALLY know what you are doing. If you don't like your FCG buy a proven commercial solution. In the overall scheme of things a couple of hundred dollars is much cheaper than the possible consequences of a botched do-it-yourself job.
 
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