Low Cost HD rifle

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The recoil sensitive point seems to conflict with the rifle round only idea.
If the user is comfortable with the SKS shooting a 7.62 x 39 then I would vote for that. No detachable mags (less reliable and stripper clips are pretty good once you get the hang of them, also 10rds should be enough without a reload) and not a Yugo as they are larger than necessary for h.d.
I would think that a carbine like the high point would have much less recoil and be very easy to keep on target, but it is a pistol round and that is out.
Good luck and let us know what you decide. With all of this help you can't go wrong. And as a person with over 3k posts on THR I am sure you will do great.
 
I would go with a KelTec sub 2000. Cheap, foldable, reasonably accurate to 100 yds, uses glock mags, lots of good things to say about the one I had.
 
I d go for a NOrinco SKS , they can be have for less than $300 at the right time and place. Order bulk ammo and you are set for fun and HD.

If you want a shotgun, get a H R pardner with sights. They are deadly with slugs and 00 buckshots.
 
I would go with a KelTec sub 2000. Cheap, foldable, reasonably accurate to 100 yds, uses glock mags, lots of good things to say about the one I had.
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That was my logic, 33 rounds of 9mm in something compact and light and manuverable seems like the perfect solution. I just do not think rifle calibers are necessary for HD, given the shooters limitations.
 
It seems as though you "stacked" your criteria so you'd get the answer you've already decided on.

Is the semi-auto requirement due to the shooter's handicap, or your personal preference?

Why are you not considering a .22 Magnum? It has no noticeable recoil from a rifle, is destructive but low-penetration at close range, and you can likely find one in your price range...

You can also look for a used IMI or Kahr M1 carbine.

If autoloading isn't absolutely required due to handicap, it's a silly requirement.

John
 
Rather than bargain basement a .223 or or 7.62x39 for this 'recoil shy' person I'd suggest a plain jaine Ruger 10/22 full of Stingers. You'll have money left over enough to shoot a mountain of pop cans in practice.

It's better than a sharp stick, easy to make follow up shots on moving targets and is a better tool for teaching marksmanship than most fire breathing black rifles with lights and lasers and optics strung hanging off of them.

Keep it simple.
 
Things are not as bad as they were, even a couple years ago, but the days of the sub $200 SKS's are gone for good. The price you gave for the Russian in your town is not too bad, sadly. That show's you the state of the market. Russian's are the only SKS that will ever be collectible. Personally, I have had 3 or 4 SKSs over the years (all ChiCom) and I bought mine to shoot, not collect. On the plus side, they are built to survive combat in the hands of peasant, conscript soldiers. They will probably outlast everyone who owns one now.

As far as recoil goes, think of a 30-30 round out of a 8+ pound rifle. Considering a Marlin 336 is about 7 pounds and a Winchester '94 is lighter than that (maybe around 6 ?) recoil is not that bad. Also, most Americans find we need a recoil pad to lengthen the stock just so it is comfortable to shoot, so that may help some.

It really depends how recoil sensitive the potential shooter is: The term "Recoil Sensitive" is subjective in the extreme.

I hope this helps. I can't speak to your second choice; never owned one.
 
There are lots of fine defensive rifles for under $400. I have 3 such rifles myself, and one (lightly sporterized 1917) would be one of my very first picks in a disaster.

Any quick repeating action- including levers and pumps- can make a good defensive longarm. I can't count the number of clean used Marlin .30-30s and Remington slide-actions I've seen for well under $400.
 
Thanks for the replies. Looking for a rifle caliber. 223 or 7.62x39
Just out of curiosity, why?
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Because I have 60,000 rounds of 223 and 37,000 rounds of 7.62x39. And as noted elsewhere no pistol caliber carbine comes close to either of these rounds fired from a 16" + bbl. Both round can be had for a reasonable amount of money and are easily found.

Please note that I am not a tyro when it comes to firearms. But I have no experience with these less expensive guns. A shotgun is out of the question.

The price range must be as delivered - i.e. including shipping and other fees, required accessories, etc. $400 represents a major investment for this person.

Yours truly:

atf3.jpg
 
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I think it is a limitation that prevents them from getting the ideal set up or the best of the best in terms of gear. That said, I'm much more concerned that someone with so many limitations and such a tight budget will not be willing or able to put in the time effort and expense to get proficient with the weapon. There are plenty of people that can run a cheap AK and be much more effective with it than others are with a suppressed noveske with an aimpoint and what ever other goodies one wants to add (or whatever other weapon one deems to be the setup).
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The person in question is former army and shot expert. He can shoot a 22 extremely well, and is quite handy with a pistol. But he's out of town on a good sized piece of property and wants something with more range and power. Help is quite a distance away. He is also thinking in terms of 'hard times' and want a serviceable rifle 'just in case'.
 
Then might I make a suggestion? Since it is for a friend and it seems like you have an overabundance of 223/7.62 and you will be supplying his ammo, otherwise you would not have mentioned it, sell a CRAP load of the ammo and buy a gun with the profits, get a pistol caliber carbine such as a HiPoint, Beretta PX4, or Keltec. Since you will have a lot of money from the ammo sales + the $400 you can easily afford handgun ammo plus a gun.

Remember, it is for defence, handgun calibers work excellent for this purpose. Heck, you could probable easily afford a stripped down AR as they can go as low as $550 now.
 
I think I need to clarify the requirements.

I have narrowed the field to two guns - The SKS and Saiga. Both are available and within the price envelope. However, I have never owned either rifle and am relying on what others have suggested. I am looking for input from people who have one or both of these guns, or have experience with same. Other rifles are an option if they meet the criteria.

I suppose HD was the wrong term, in that the user lives out of town on a good sized piece of property. The rifle should be able to serve other purposes and be usable out to at least a couple hundred yards.

The user man not be able to make repetitive motions with his arm, so that leaves out any lever, bolt or pump action rifle. He already owns a 10/22 and a Sig 245.

I have tried to offer him an rifle, but he insists on buying his own and thus is limited to the funds noted.

Thanks to all who have posted replies.

Another question that comes to mind: accuracy of named rifles. How accurate is the typical sks? There's a Russian and a Norinco locally - $325 for the former and $250 for the latter. The Russian is in very nice shape, the Chinese not so much.
 
Go for the saiga. The SKS is bulkier and longer, plus, it is much easier to customize a Saiga to specific lengths for a more personal fit.

As for accuracy, they all should be minute of paint can at 100 yards. While not target rifles they are battle rifles and are made to hit a human accurately out past 300 yards.

You could sell him a rifle, if he wants to pay for it then you might have a good idea of one in your collection in his price point that he already likes.
 
Sadly I don't have anything in his price range. And he won't accept a gift rifle.
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to bad. At least that way you and he would both know the history and whether or not it is in good condition, both internally and externally.

Have you checked CDNN? Sometimes they have have crazy deals.

What about an M1 Cabine? Compact, decent sized round, low weight, low recoil. Not sure how much they are in your area but they are right around 400 here.
 
If you need a Home Defense weapon a 12ga. shotgun will cover every base. You can shoot slugs, 00, bird shot. Just remember most of the above rifles will penetrate a wall or several walls. A good Remington or Mossberg 12 ga. pump will suffice. I have almost all the mentioned rifles. For HD a pistol grip type will be short and easy to use. If you want to hunt keep it in conventional rifle stock setup. Just remember there may be innocent people on the other side of the wall.
JT
 
GunTech I understand the need for the friend to be independent and the need for no charity from others. That said "find" a rifle, say a good AK or whatever else that is good for him that is a fair bit better than his price range and let him know that it just arrived as someones trade in and available for his target price. Other option would be having another "anonymous" shooter, veteran, ETC cover the difference. Whatever it takes to give him a hand--he pays what he can and you are able to help a friend. There is always a route through the minefield it just takes skill, determination, and diplomacy. :cool:

Rick
 
Thanks for all the ideas.

I found a saiga in 7.62x39 for $309 NIB within driving distance. Anyone done the mag conversion? I am looking at the one by dinzagarms and it looks pretty simple. I have a mill/drill in the shop.
 
Sorry for some of the obtuse replies. You can tell people .223 or 7.62x30, semi auto, no shotguns, and they won't comprehend it. It's the legacy of public schooling.

From the perspective of a Retired Reservist who is also slightly limited by age and injury, I understand not only what "repetitive motion" means, but also "I will pay for it myself." You're doing right to just help find what might fit. Charity is NOT an option for some, and will permanently destroy a relationship.

Some posters here don't understand : there are still people in America who choose to just tough it out rather than look for a handout from friends or neighbors. Rather than be treated like a favorite daughter, it's even more important to EARN things of value. What is ok for one is almost life threatening to the other. Charity becomes a series of demeaning acts that constitute a drumbeat that says "You are worthless and can't do it on your own anymore, old man." Many mean well by it, but you weren't taught that by an actual male role model.

The SKS/AK is about the only choice. Almost anything in .223 has been price escalated by demand to almost unreasonable levels. The import AK's have a low cash threshold and can do the job at the price. That's the market right now as all the fatherless suburbanites buy AR's to achieve their manhood.

I understand the OP hasn't said he will contribute one penny toward a firearm, and encourage that thought. It's not his place, and the purchaser will feel empowered and enabled if he does it alone. That's more important than the firearm itself, and shooting it will help as therapy.

Good intentions are the path to Hell, this guy is already dealing with a radical change in physical abiliity. Patronizing gifts are not what he needs - let him grow and learn to accept them at his own pace.

The vets are pulling for him, we're all in this together.
 
Interesting points Tirod. You are correct as long as ego and pride don't get in the way of personal protection or well being. With your reasoning a gift should only be accepted if the person can already afford it. If I had a friend who could not afford groceries and was to prideful to accept food from friends or help, you can bet that I would find a way to get him the food he needs. Now, if he was constantly out of work and refused to work it would be very different. However, sometimes due to circumstances a person needs help, and ego or pride might need to be set aside.

Taking care of friends and family has nothing to do with having a "male role model", it is just the right thing to do.

Sometimes a gift is just a gift, and if he doesn't want to accept it what are you gonna do?
 
One caveat on the SKS is don't load with FMJ for home defense. Use the higher quality softpoints made by Cor-Bon if you can find them, or at least SP or HP from Wolf Gold. Good bullets will increase its effectiveness many times over. FMJ's are for varmints and targets.

I would go with a Russian made SKS if possible. I've had two early Russian made ones over the years, and they were top notch quality wise. Also, I would go with an UNmodified one. That means no adapter for AK magazines, no scope soldered on, etc. No bubba. Not because of historical integrity but because the things work a lot better left as is, and unless YOU do the mod, you don't know if the guy who did knew what he was doing. The problem children SKS's I've seen have been heavily modified ones.

If you are still looking at AK's, then I'd suggest either a Chinese made Polytech or the old Romak's that were imported 10-15 years ago. Very good quality on these, better than what's come after.

Let's not kid ourselves, rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols, even if you fire them out of a pistol cal carbine.
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For 9x19, but not for .357 or .44 Mag. These will gain considerable velocity in a carbine, almost to the point of becoming a different cartridge. But that takes you out of semi-auto territory at least in that price range.
 
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A Home defense rifle should be able to take "hi-capacity" magazines. I say get a Ruger P95, Taurus 24/7 Pro, or one of the Taurus 800s. BudsGunShop is selling a Taurus 840 for 345$. Though not many have been made, what little i have heard about the taurus PT-800s impresses me a lot
 
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