low end black rifle recommendations

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this is the kind of comment that really gets my goat. It shows a lack of research and understanding in a subject. The differences are well documented. From the materials used to the level of testing and QC involved. I am not sure what is so hard to understand about that for some people. Whether those differences are important to you is one thing. But to deny the differences is just ignoring reality.
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This.

Many users don't need the higher quality specs, but there's no question that differences exist. Many approach it as a stupid "Ford vs. Chevy" type argument, but all the various differences can be readily found (slightly less so since Rob_S took down the details of the M4 comparison chart). Pick what quality level you think you need, or what you want to spend, and go from there. If you don't know that you need anything special, a consumer grade AR will probably serve you just fine.
 
Anyways back on topic.

These are some of the lowest priced simple AR's I'd recommend looking into that can still pull double duty as HD rifles while still being easy to upgrade with optics,stocks,ff rails, etc, later:

BCM
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/142.htm

Colt 6920
http://www.impactguns.com/store/COLT-LE6920BF.html

LMT
http://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=186&cid=12&session=c5f120c1f6c3905523753ed7de31b5a8
(must be on sale or something, comes with SOPMOD stock)

Spikes
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st15-midlength-le-carbine-p-443.html


......and some high end eye candy just for the fun of it.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...-Receiver-LaRue-p/bcm-urg-mid-16 bfh lt12.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...r-Receiver-LaRue-p/bcm-urg-mid-14bfh lt12.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SPR-Mk-12-Mod-Bravo3X-p/bcm-urg-mk12-3x dd14.htm
:D
 
this is the kind of comment that really gets my goat. It shows a lack of research and understanding in a subject. The differences are well documented. From the materials used to the level of testing and QC involved. I am not sure what is so hard to understand about that for some people. Whether those differences are important to you is one thing. But to deny the differences is just ignoring reality.
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There are HUGE differences in "level of quality" and JUNK.. you made it very clear that dpms and bushy are junk!

Avoid Oly, Avoid DPMS.
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That is a strong statement for just being a little different level of quality.. most of the differences are fit and finish, most of which has no bearing on the rifles performance.. again buy whatever you want, but telling people to avoid a very good brand is in bad taste.. you can search the internet and find stories of about every gun in the world failing for someone, google colt AR15 failures, there are thousands of them.. that doesn't mean colt makes a bad product, it means only the people who have problems get on the net and complain..

heres a colt that the whole reciever blew up:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/colt-ar-15-kaboom/

becareful what you read you might find out that there are no ARs that meet your standard
 
Did you read what caused that Colt to blow up? It was ammo related.

No where have I or anyone else claimed that a sub par AR will blow up on you. What we have said is that they will fail.

I have never told people to avoid very good brands. I have warned them about avoiding Sub par brands. I am sorry that some people think all ARs are created equal. But once again THEY ARE NOT. DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA, Oly, and others do not make firearms to the same level of quality as a BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, etc. They use cheaper materials, don't perform the same tests and dont' have the same level as QC.

This isn't my opinion it is a well recorded series of facts.

And finally, "Fit and finish" is the absolute last thing that you should look at in a quality AR. There are far more important factors to consider for a functional Weapon.
 
For $800-$1000, I can't afford a T&E gun. That's a waste for me. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, the AR better have a good reputation. That said, certain companies offer rifles that meet the baseline consensus for a rifle that offers you the best chance for great reliability.

Oly, Vulcan, and Hesse apparently didn't fit that consensus very well. I didn't need someone to tell me that, but I appreciate those who do. It's info worth looking into why. Information is your friend regarding ARs, and so are user opinions, and I think there's enough out there for any of us to weigh on their own merits and make a reasonably informed decision on which companies to look into.

For the $800-$1000 budgets, there are some good companies that can afford to sell a rifle to you at that price-point without the recommendation that anything be changed out-of-the-box. Anything below $800, and people make suggestions like, "Well, make sure the gas key is adequately staked... take it to a smithy they'll do it for you." or "swap out this spring".

The difference in price at $600 and an $800 rifle is worth holding out for the $800-$1000 that doesn't come with recommendations of what to switch out. I want my gun to work well out of the box with standard maintenance required, NOT anything extra.
 
my first rifle was a del-ton. i have shot over 2000 rounds, since feb. 2010, no problems. $736 + tax, comes with case, 2 mags, sling cleaning kit. best investment in years.
 
Its all relative. I've had people tell me that my Doublestar was absolute junk without ever laying hands on it, and I've had owners of other brands amazed by what my $700 bought me, congratulating me on a great find. What i do know is I did a fair amount of research (including referencing the almighty chart) and in the end, I'm 100% happy with my purchase. I didn't need to "take my gun in" to get it to run right or to have the gas key staked. A quick breakdown didn't reveal any apparent issues, and the gun shoots accurately and functions flawlessly with any ammo I've fed it. Is it 100% mil spec? Nope..... Is it suitable for my uses (plinking, targets, medium range prairie dog/coyote hunting, basically just riding in the truck and if need be, home defense) It certainly is. Its a quality firearm, but based on price alone, many people eliminate it from consideration, thinking you need the big bucks to get a "good enough" rifle. The fact of the matter is, Doublestar makes a good gun for the money, and a good many shooters would be just as satisfied with one s a more expensive make. It is what it is...an entry level AR....which is just what...IMO...most entry level AR shooters would be completely happy with. I'm not a "dirt shooter" but I'm also pretty darn sure the zombie hordes aren't coming tomorrow, and even if they do, I firmly believe my DS carbine isn't going to seize up and die because it suddenly realizes its in "combat". The way some posts read, you'd think AR's had a mind of their own, and would fail at the mere mention of actual use in "combat". An accurate, reliable AR doesn't need to be a 1k gun. You can go that route if you want to, have the means to, etc....but don't believe that more money spent will actually increase your satisfaction level, becasue, for a lot of people, its just money wasted chasing the latest fads....
 
kwelz
Are you intentionally trolling or do you just like arguing?
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Seems to be a pattern that I am not always involved in.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570300&highlight=olympic+arms



Olympic had some issues in the past and had since taken care of them. The opinions of the owners was generally satisfaction with a couple of holdouts saying they still had problems. Big Deal.
You know very well if you have done your homework that the same is true for all mfrs and assemblers.

Personally, I would be embarrassed to come to an internet forum and say that my Colt wasn't working properly for whatever reason. So maybe there is just a gap in reporting.

Once again I do not own an Olympic product. So I am also parroting what I read on the internet.




E-Nuff




o
 
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i have 2 Bushmaster ARs and 3 DPMS ARs and never had a problem with any of them.
 
I cannot speak to the quality of late production Olympic's, however I do own one from the early-mid 80's... that gun has been nothing but headaches for me... Feed problem, accuracy issues.. all over the paper.. If you come across a DEAL on an older one, I would really have it checked over before I plunked down my hard earned cash..

I'm sure that if I took the time to learn more about the fine points of the internal workings of AR's then I could probably figure out what ails it and give it a cure.. But there are three others in the safe, and they work just fine.

One a Colt Lower, with DMPS Upper, and a Spike... no problemo.. hits where I point em, not finicky on their diet.. With the ss-109 round the are pretty good out to 300... Never really tried them at longer ranges..

I said three, the other is the newer Ar-22 from Rem., it's an ar platform I guess, but 22lrs are not the topic on this thread.... its a fun gun, runs pretty well...
 
A vote for Bushmaster and Smith and Wesson

I have a Bushmaster AR-15 and my wife has a Smith and Wesson M&P AR 15. The fit, finish and quality are excellent. To date, running cheapo ammo, they have ran flawlessly. We shoot iron sights so both and both are more accurate than we are.

Both cost less than $800.00 and can still be had at those prices.

I know that first hand accounts are anecdotal and maybe mine are exceptions to some quality rule but I am very happy with both rifles. I would trust my life to either one. YMMV.
 
most ARs on the market right now, are well above the standard that is required even for HD or "life threatening situations...
 
I wouldn't buy any of those as I don't like that style of AR. I just don't think they are much fun to shoot. I prefer a heavier 20" gun that is easy to shoot with a high level of accuracy and that has a nice trigger, but of the choices I would take the Colt.

They make a nice gun of that type that will retain its value.
 
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Zerodefect said:
Depends where you set your standard, which is the point of this thread.
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Nothing wrong with wanting the best spec sheet and spending whatever it costs, simply to enjoy a high quality product.

However I have to wonder how many guys who must have the premium milspec AR "to save their life" then leave their house regularly without a firearm of any kind what-so-ever?

Or leave the house with a handgun that isn't built to same life preserving US government specs like their AR?

Or have the wiz-bang gun in the trunk of the car and then go about their business unarmed at their destination?

For those guys, it kind of makes the whole "I must have a HPT / MPI barrel to keep me alive" thing seem rather silly to me.
 
Depends where you set your standard, which is the point of this thread.
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not really. as far as MOST of you mainstream brands go they are perfectly reliable.. this is assuming that you have put several hundred rounds through it AT a bare minimum to make sure the rifle is broke in and functioning fine, which should be done with any weapon, for defense or hunting or anything..

Look colt has been set as a standard for the AR15.. they have had all sorts of problems over the years with QC and weapons with major issues, as will any company making that many units. It's the nature of the mass production beast.. assuming that bushy, or RRA is junk because they have had hiccups over the years is stupid, and any brand you wanna pick is at this moment sending out units that is going to make someone so frustrated that they will not buy from them again.. doesn't mean they are junk..

when millions of units are made and you have a couple hundred people with issues, in the grand scheme of things that is pretty good. Hey I bought a brand new car with bad rings in the motor once.. it happens.. Google any company you want(I'd suggest colt) you'll find story after story of things that should have never left the factory.. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS! assuming it's a mass produced brand, and not a custom small company..

I have bought all kinds of blem receivers that had canted holes and what not, and as a general rule never had any issues.. I'd be surprised hoow many guys say They have a bushy that was giving them problems and it was somehow operator error, or a bad magazine, or something... Many people never take the time to understand how an AR works they just want one. Which is why staking cracks me up, people get all freaked out about "proper" staking! when in about 2 seconds you can stake your carrier if for some reason you have an issue.. but people waste days at the range and mags full of ammo fighting with it... oh and google it colt has had staking issues too..

Just to be clear I like colt just fine, I just don't drink the "colt koolaid"! little horsey in the bottom of every cup!
 
So I keep hearing bushmaster makes colt parts..can anyone who claims this offer any proof? Cause it seems to be repeated pretty frequently.
 
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