Low recoil 9mm
- Thread starter Madpap
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rfwobbly
Member
Your manual is full of them. They're called the "starting load". If your gun is sprung for defensive loads, then you may want to run those with a reduced spring set from Wolff Spring.
Thanks Walkalong, that's what I was looking for. I know that the manuals are full of starting loads. That's not what I was asking. I was asking for loads that people have used. Supplies are to hard to come by to try every starting load in the book.
chris in va
Member
You're not understanding...find a starting load in a manual with whatever powder and bullet you happen to find.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
If you can't find VV powders the light 9mm load I like is 4.4gr W231/HP-38 under a 124gr FMJ bullet. It's clean and accurate in every pistol I shoot...
Clark
Member
Recoil pain is caused when too much pressure pushes on a nerve.
To reduce the pressure on that nerve and keep it lower than the threshold of pain, we can:
1) increase the mass of the gun
2) decrease the forward momentum of the bullet and gas
3) spread the impulse over time
4) spread the impulse over area
In addition, there is the perceived recoil from noise, so make the gun less noisy.
To do this good enough, I would start with a heavy pistol with a broad grip, like the Beretta 92.
Then work up a 9mm load that makes the brass land 5 feet away. When the brass goes more that 5 feet, the recoil is not just coupled to the hand through the recoil spring, but also through the slide hammering the stop on the frame. That hurts.
Use a fast powder, that will make less noise for the same forward momentum needed to drive the slide back fast enough to cycle.
Use a heavier bullet, that will take less powder to cycle the action.
Put ear plugs AND ear muffs on her.
Here is and example of what NOT to do:
Kel-Tec PF9
90 gr Gold Dot
Lots of Blue Dot powder so the cases land 20 feet away.
No hearing protection.
Here is an example of what to do:
Beretta 92
147 gr
Tiny charge of Red Dot or Bullseye so brass lands 5 feet away
ear plugs and ear muffs.
To reduce the pressure on that nerve and keep it lower than the threshold of pain, we can:
1) increase the mass of the gun
2) decrease the forward momentum of the bullet and gas
3) spread the impulse over time
4) spread the impulse over area
In addition, there is the perceived recoil from noise, so make the gun less noisy.
To do this good enough, I would start with a heavy pistol with a broad grip, like the Beretta 92.
Then work up a 9mm load that makes the brass land 5 feet away. When the brass goes more that 5 feet, the recoil is not just coupled to the hand through the recoil spring, but also through the slide hammering the stop on the frame. That hurts.
Use a fast powder, that will make less noise for the same forward momentum needed to drive the slide back fast enough to cycle.
Use a heavier bullet, that will take less powder to cycle the action.
Put ear plugs AND ear muffs on her.
Here is and example of what NOT to do:
Kel-Tec PF9
90 gr Gold Dot
Lots of Blue Dot powder so the cases land 20 feet away.
No hearing protection.
Here is an example of what to do:
Beretta 92
147 gr
Tiny charge of Red Dot or Bullseye so brass lands 5 feet away
ear plugs and ear muffs.
J_McLeod
Member
My favorite light load is a MBC 147gr with HP-38/231 or HS-6. It's even light with the HS-6.
45lcshooter
Member
Start small, start her on a 22revolver to get her trained not to flinch.
Train small, don't take a novice shooter out and hand them your 500S&W and tap on the back, don't flinch.
Anyone wanting to learn to shoot or even experienced shooters train at the bottom to get the feel for each gun, then work your way up from there.
If she is recoil sensitive, go with a 380 or 32. If those are out of the option, get her a tazer.
Train small, don't take a novice shooter out and hand them your 500S&W and tap on the back, don't flinch.
Anyone wanting to learn to shoot or even experienced shooters train at the bottom to get the feel for each gun, then work your way up from there.
If she is recoil sensitive, go with a 380 or 32. If those are out of the option, get her a tazer.
look up loads with aa#7 and 147g FMJs, really keeps the 9mm from being "snappy" very manageable recoil, and the load translates well for training to use premium 147g HP PD rounds. I think something with the realitvely slow #7 powder helps control the snappiness as compared to wonderful PowerPistol or the dreaded TiteGroup.
Just don't load up TOO many starting loads without testing.
You ever shoot through 200x 147gr 9mm having to rack-tap-bang every single round because the slide doesn't get enough momentum to eject the round?
Trust me. Work up 5-10 of those. If they don't eject clean, bump it up .2 gr and try again.
You ever shoot through 200x 147gr 9mm having to rack-tap-bang every single round because the slide doesn't get enough momentum to eject the round?
Trust me. Work up 5-10 of those. If they don't eject clean, bump it up .2 gr and try again.
Why would anyone take a new shooter out and give them a large gun like that?
greyling22
Member
rule of thumb: with any caliber in any handgun I generally start with the starting load of whatever powder I have handy and work down until the gun stops cycling or accuracy goes to pot. I am recoil shy myself. my 45's dropped about 18" from the gun.
Madpap, they do it to post on youtube and get a laugh. It's all about their entertainment, not about helping the shooter.
Madpap, they do it to post on youtube and get a laugh. It's all about their entertainment, not about helping the shooter.
In my Colt the brass just lands a couple of feet away in a nice pile.
I did have to replace the extractor and I also installed an over sized EGW FPS and gave it a small radius. The stop helps slow unlocking a hair, which helps the burn, and it keeps the extractor from clocking. The slide velocity is such that a poor extractor that was also clocking did not extract cases well. Now it just boringly piles them just to the right of my feet.
gonefishin1
Member
The heavier the bullet the more recoil correct? So wouldn't you want a light bullet for less recoil?
Depends. The equations for recoil (momentum) differ from the equations for kinetic energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_recoil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_recoil
LiveLife
Member
+1. Depends on powder charges used for the particular bullet weights.Trent said:
But in general:
Heavier 124 gr FMJ with 4.4 gr W231/HP-38 will recoil "softer" than lighter 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr W231/HP-38.
Heavier 147 gr lead TC bullet with 3.5 gr W231/HP-38 will recoil "softer" than lighter 125 gr lead RN bullet with 4.0 gr W231/HP-38.
Pistol powder is FAST. It's not at all like rifle.
We know from Revolver shooting that pistol powder will typically fully "burn" before the bullet passes through the forcing cone. With autoloaders, that fast powder is burnt before that bullet is a half inch from the casing. (The PRESSURE keeps acting on the projectile longer on a longer barrel; but the powder is DONE).
The duration of the imparted momentum varies slightly by powder, but it don't take long. The momentum (work) is largely done in a very brief period of time, so powder has less effect on recoil than with rifles (you can FEEL the difference in powder burn rates on rifles, even on different powders that give approx the same pressure peak, if you shoot magnums; the curve happens over a longer duration).
Pistols, though, tend to give everything they're going to give to you all at once in a sharp slap.
So pushing out a lighter bullet with a heavier powder charge at higher velocity imparts more "work" to your hand, than a lower powder charge pushing out a heavier bullet. Velocity takes more work to build up (10% more powder might give 3-5% more velocity, but recoil is going to be much harder).
I've been reading up about this because I have a couple of newer revolvers that I found I'm somewhat recoil sensitive to (357 and 44 mag, to be precise....)
I plan on honing in on a load I can comfortably fire but imparts the maximum energy I can stand, for self defense loads in the 357. The 44 mag, I need to find something I can shoot all day, without breaking myself, for practice, and save the filling-rattling loads for hunting.
Same basic premise.
BTW, I have my USPSA 9mm loads dialed in at a power factor of 126.5, just comfortably enough above the minimum power factor threshhold to pass chrono on a cold day, while giving me the best split times.
We know from Revolver shooting that pistol powder will typically fully "burn" before the bullet passes through the forcing cone. With autoloaders, that fast powder is burnt before that bullet is a half inch from the casing. (The PRESSURE keeps acting on the projectile longer on a longer barrel; but the powder is DONE).
The duration of the imparted momentum varies slightly by powder, but it don't take long. The momentum (work) is largely done in a very brief period of time, so powder has less effect on recoil than with rifles (you can FEEL the difference in powder burn rates on rifles, even on different powders that give approx the same pressure peak, if you shoot magnums; the curve happens over a longer duration).
Pistols, though, tend to give everything they're going to give to you all at once in a sharp slap.
So pushing out a lighter bullet with a heavier powder charge at higher velocity imparts more "work" to your hand, than a lower powder charge pushing out a heavier bullet. Velocity takes more work to build up (10% more powder might give 3-5% more velocity, but recoil is going to be much harder).
I've been reading up about this because I have a couple of newer revolvers that I found I'm somewhat recoil sensitive to (357 and 44 mag, to be precise....)
I plan on honing in on a load I can comfortably fire but imparts the maximum energy I can stand, for self defense loads in the 357. The 44 mag, I need to find something I can shoot all day, without breaking myself, for practice, and save the filling-rattling loads for hunting.
Same basic premise.
BTW, I have my USPSA 9mm loads dialed in at a power factor of 126.5, just comfortably enough above the minimum power factor threshhold to pass chrono on a cold day, while giving me the best split times.
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