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Low recoil 9mm

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Madpap, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. Madpap

    Madpap Member

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    My wife wants to start shooting with me so I bought her a Sig P239 in 9mm. She's a little recoil sensitive so I don't want her to develop a flinch right off the bat. Does anyone have a low power load using 124gr fmj's?
     
  2. Mccarty

    Mccarty Member

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    Use a starting charge or just under and it should not be bad at all.
    If you do use a reduced charge check to make sure it cycles action and does not leave one in the bore - thatcould make her very recoil sensitive.
     
  3. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Your manual is full of them. They're called the "starting load". If your gun is sprung for defensive loads, then you may want to run those with a reduced spring set from Wolff Spring.
     
  4. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Make them so weak you have to install a weaker coil spring to cycle the action.
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    3.9 Grs N320 and a 124/5 Gr bullet. Light as a feather from a full size 1911.

    Any starting load with a fast powder will work. Bullseye, N310, WST, Clays, etc.
     
  6. Madpap

    Madpap Member

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    Thanks Walkalong, that's what I was looking for. I know that the manuals are full of starting loads. That's not what I was asking. I was asking for loads that people have used. Supplies are to hard to come by to try every starting load in the book.
     
  7. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    You're not understanding...find a starting load in a manual with whatever powder and bullet you happen to find.
     
  8. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    If you can't find VV powders the light 9mm load I like is 4.4gr W231/HP-38 under a 124gr FMJ bullet. It's clean and accurate in every pistol I shoot...
     
  9. Clark

    Clark Member

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    Recoil pain is caused when too much pressure pushes on a nerve.

    To reduce the pressure on that nerve and keep it lower than the threshold of pain, we can:
    1) increase the mass of the gun
    2) decrease the forward momentum of the bullet and gas
    3) spread the impulse over time
    4) spread the impulse over area

    In addition, there is the perceived recoil from noise, so make the gun less noisy.
    To do this good enough, I would start with a heavy pistol with a broad grip, like the Beretta 92.
    Then work up a 9mm load that makes the brass land 5 feet away. When the brass goes more that 5 feet, the recoil is not just coupled to the hand through the recoil spring, but also through the slide hammering the stop on the frame. That hurts.
    Use a fast powder, that will make less noise for the same forward momentum needed to drive the slide back fast enough to cycle.
    Use a heavier bullet, that will take less powder to cycle the action.
    Put ear plugs AND ear muffs on her.

    Here is and example of what NOT to do:
    Kel-Tec PF9
    90 gr Gold Dot
    Lots of Blue Dot powder so the cases land 20 feet away.
    No hearing protection.

    Here is an example of what to do:
    Beretta 92
    147 gr
    Tiny charge of Red Dot or Bullseye so brass lands 5 feet away
    ear plugs and ear muffs.
     
  10. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    Heaver bullets with faster powder.
     
  11. J_McLeod

    J_McLeod Member

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    My favorite light load is a MBC 147gr with HP-38/231 or HS-6. It's even light with the HS-6.
     
  12. Madpap

    Madpap Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I have a couple to try. I'll let you know which works.
     
  13. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I've had good luck with just over 4 grains of ZIP pushing a 124 grain bullet. Out of a steel or polymer-framed gun, it is super soft shooting.
     
  14. ldlfh7

    ldlfh7 Member

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    4 gr bullseye with 124 gr missouri bullet small ball. Very accurate and low recoil out of my sw9ve.
     
  15. 45lcshooter

    45lcshooter Member

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    Start small, start her on a 22revolver to get her trained not to flinch.

    Train small, don't take a novice shooter out and hand them your 500S&W and tap on the back, don't flinch.

    Anyone wanting to learn to shoot or even experienced shooters train at the bottom to get the feel for each gun, then work your way up from there.

    If she is recoil sensitive, go with a 380 or 32. If those are out of the option, get her a tazer.
     
  16. BBDartCA

    BBDartCA Member

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    look up loads with aa#7 and 147g FMJs, really keeps the 9mm from being "snappy" very manageable recoil, and the load translates well for training to use premium 147g HP PD rounds. I think something with the realitvely slow #7 powder helps control the snappiness as compared to wonderful PowerPistol or the dreaded TiteGroup.
     
  17. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Just don't load up TOO many starting loads without testing.

    You ever shoot through 200x 147gr 9mm having to rack-tap-bang every single round because the slide doesn't get enough momentum to eject the round?

    Trust me. Work up 5-10 of those. If they don't eject clean, bump it up .2 gr and try again.

    :)
     
  18. Madpap

    Madpap Member

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    No can't say I have. I don't know why anyone would load that many before trying them out. She's shooting 4.1grs of 231 right now and likes them. Tomorrow I'll try 3.9grs of N320 and see how that goes.
     
  19. Madpap

    Madpap Member

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    Why would anyone take a new shooter out and give them a large gun like that?
     
  20. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    rule of thumb: with any caliber in any handgun I generally start with the starting load of whatever powder I have handy and work down until the gun stops cycling or accuracy goes to pot. I am recoil shy myself. my 45's dropped about 18" from the gun.



    Madpap, they do it to post on youtube and get a laugh. It's all about their entertainment, not about helping the shooter.
     
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    In my Colt the brass just lands a couple of feet away in a nice pile.

    I did have to replace the extractor and I also installed an over sized EGW FPS and gave it a small radius. The stop helps slow unlocking a hair, which helps the burn, and it keeps the extractor from clocking. The slide velocity is such that a poor extractor that was also clocking did not extract cases well. Now it just boringly piles them just to the right of my feet.
     
  22. gonefishin1

    gonefishin1 Member

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    The heavier the bullet the more recoil correct? So wouldn't you want a light bullet for less recoil?
     
  23. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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  24. bds

    bds Member

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    +1. Depends on powder charges used for the particular bullet weights.


    But in general:

    Heavier 124 gr FMJ with 4.4 gr W231/HP-38 will recoil "softer" than lighter 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr W231/HP-38.

    Heavier 147 gr lead TC bullet with 3.5 gr W231/HP-38 will recoil "softer" than lighter 125 gr lead RN bullet with 4.0 gr W231/HP-38.
     
  25. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Pistol powder is FAST. It's not at all like rifle.

    We know from Revolver shooting that pistol powder will typically fully "burn" before the bullet passes through the forcing cone. With autoloaders, that fast powder is burnt before that bullet is a half inch from the casing. (The PRESSURE keeps acting on the projectile longer on a longer barrel; but the powder is DONE).

    The duration of the imparted momentum varies slightly by powder, but it don't take long. The momentum (work) is largely done in a very brief period of time, so powder has less effect on recoil than with rifles (you can FEEL the difference in powder burn rates on rifles, even on different powders that give approx the same pressure peak, if you shoot magnums; the curve happens over a longer duration).

    Pistols, though, tend to give everything they're going to give to you all at once in a sharp slap.

    So pushing out a lighter bullet with a heavier powder charge at higher velocity imparts more "work" to your hand, than a lower powder charge pushing out a heavier bullet. Velocity takes more work to build up (10% more powder might give 3-5% more velocity, but recoil is going to be much harder).

    I've been reading up about this because I have a couple of newer revolvers that I found I'm somewhat recoil sensitive to (357 and 44 mag, to be precise....)

    I plan on honing in on a load I can comfortably fire but imparts the maximum energy I can stand, for self defense loads in the 357. The 44 mag, I need to find something I can shoot all day, without breaking myself, for practice, and save the filling-rattling loads for hunting.

    Same basic premise.

    BTW, I have my USPSA 9mm loads dialed in at a power factor of 126.5, just comfortably enough above the minimum power factor threshhold to pass chrono on a cold day, while giving me the best split times. :)
     
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