M&P9c Or P99c AS Opinions Needed

[Riktoven]

God bless DA/SA, I wouldn't have it any other way (at least not until I can afford an Ed Brown 1911).

Glock, XD, M&P, LEM, DAK, LDA....these triggers work, but I don't like em. TOO SLOW ON THE RESET AND WAAAAAY TOO GRITTY.

I feel bad for Cops that have no say in what they get to carry.

 

[Navy87Guy]

If you can decock the SW/P99 quickly without losing your shoting grip, that's great. I could only do it by significantly loosening my grip and angling the gun oddly. Besides, I agree that this is less of an issue for a CCWing citizen.

I followed your logic all the way up until this point....if you're decocking to holster, then what is the concern about your "shooting grip"? If being ready to fire is a concern, then you probably shouldn't be decocking anyway. If it's not a concern, the adjusting to decock single-handedly (which should take about 3 seconds) shouldn't be an issue.

I know you don't like DA/SA, so I'm not going to try to convert you. Just curious.

Jim

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I have no experience with the Walther, but my MP9C has been outstanding, functioning perfectly from the very first round. The "scratchy" or "gritty" trigger break smooths out after a few hundred rounds. It does not have to return fully forward to reset, but this reset point is not very distinct, one of the only two things I don't like about it. (The other is the front sight; its dot, being the same size as those of the rear, appears smaller when held at arm's length in a shooting grip; I prefer a more prominent sight.)

 

[Coronach]

I followed your logic all the way up until this point....if you're decocking to holster, then what is the concern about your "shooting grip"? If being ready to fire is a concern, then you probably shouldn't be decocking anyway. If it's not a concern, the adjusting to decock single-handedly (which should take about 3 seconds) shouldn't be an issue.

You assume that the situation is static and not dynamic. In a real shooting, it is always dynamic. The threat you thought you addressed reappears. The threat you never saw takes a potshot at you. A non-lethal threat (for cops, it is almost always a distraught family member or friend of the "victim") suddenly makes itself known by trying to punch you. One way or the other, you need to be able to either shoot, right now, or put the gun away and use both of your hands, right now. This is a problem when one of your hands is full of a screaming woman's shirt, and you're trying to do the twist your wrist, adjust your grip and decock your gun drill with the other, the whole time keeping the gun out of her hands, the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and keep an eye out for other bad guys with guns and, oh yes, make sure the gentleman you just shot continues to believe that discretion is the better part of valor.

I know you don't like DA/SA, so I'm not going to try to convert you. Just curious.

I'm not a fan because of the transition issue, only. Learning two trigger pulls for one gun just makes my brain itch. The decocking problem (as much as it is a problem) was never an issue on my 4506 or on either of my Sigs. I can thumb both of those to decock without losing my grip or using my off hand.

Mike

 

[Magowah]

I have an M&P compact 9mm. Traded a brand new Taurus Mill. Pro 9mm for it. Taurus was junk. Shot low and left everytime, no matter who was the shooter. The M&P compact 9mm shoots wonderfully. Have had no problems at all, after many 100s of rounds. Got my2 new free mags today! Have nothing but great things to say about my M&P Compact 9mm.

 

[tydephan]

Got my2 new free mags today!

How long did it take you to get them?

 

[scurtis_34471]

I just got back from my first trip to the range with the New S&W M&P 9 Compact. That is one fantastic little gun. The ergos are great, it points very well and its very accurate. I think I like it even better than my XD and I like the XD a lot.

 

[ccmdfd]

I took my M&P 9C and P99C to the range yesterday. While I love the way the P99C feels in my hand when I grab it, the M&P really outshined the P99 at the range. The recoil had a similar flip/rise, but the amount of force my hand felt was significantly lower with the M&P. I also found the M&P's trigger to be easier to reset and engage for double taps.


cc

 

[nemoaz]

You forgot the biggest con for the Walther (and HK): that stupid magazine release LEVER!

 

[DHart]

I love the M&P design and love my 40 Compact. After a few hundred rounds the trigger smooths out really nicely - wonderful trigger indeed! And the ergos feel awesome. Great design & concept overall. Well supported chambers, accurate, feed & eject reliable.

But mine is unreliable due to mag drop problem. Mine is a recent production "N" version. All was fine for about 400 rounds, then the mag started dropping on almost every round. S&W took back the gun, replaced the mag catch and sent back to me. All was fine for about 300 rounds when it started happening again. This time they sent me another (3rd this time) mag catch which the CS rep told me was the very latest they had (now with a hardened metal engagement tab). The new mag catch didn't make it through two full mags before the dropping started again.

It is not true that S&W has corrected the mag drop problem on the M&P's with their revised mag catch. They are apparently trying to figure it out and have released a new catch (which looks no different to me. And hasn't eliminated the problem in my gun.) I urge you to spend some time on the mp-pistol.com site to learn more about this.

Regardless of the true percentage of M&P owners with mag drop problems (it is 19% on the UNscientific poll on the site) - S&W has a definite problem with mags dropping and in spite of some supposedly revised mag catches (I can't see any changes myself in looking at them) the problem has not been eliminated. Great gun design in every respect except the mag catch area. I just wish I could trust mine, but so far I can't. It's going to be going back to S&W again. S&W customer service is excellent and they seem to be trying hard to correct this known design flaw. If you decide to buy one.. just be aware of the potential for mag drop reliability problems after the gun has seen some wear and tear... many of the M&P's are reputed to run just great (so far), but the potential for mag drop problems does, unfortunately, continue lurk.

 

[Coronach]

How does the mag catch differ from the full-size? Correct me if I'm wrong, but only the compacts are having this issue, no? IF that's the case...I dunno, call me crazy....but why not just use the fullsize design's catch? The only thing I can think of that might vay between the two that could cause this issue is spring tension on the magazine. Is that it?

Mike

 

[DHart]

Mike... I have no idea if the catch differs from full size to compact. I would think they're the same.

I believe the spring tension is MUCH too weak for one thing. The thumb engagement pad for mag release is a bit too prominent (some owners have had their mags drop in a holster due to the prominence of the release and the lightness of the spring). The metal engagement area of the mag catch is of much softer metal than the mag itself and visible wear is quite apparent after a little bit of use. The depth of engagement is very little... one needs only depress the mag catch button verry slightly to release the mag. The slop in the mag well allows the mags to move a little too much in there... potentially causing the mag to move slightly away from the catch within the well - causing a mag drop.

I've spent a lot of time and energy trying to figure this out and, in summary of the above, I believe that the following changes would eliminate the mag drop problem:

1) install a much stiffer mag catch spring (EASY fix!)
2) create a deeper engagement of the mag catch into the mag itself
3) ensure that frames are within spec to eliminate slop of mag in the mag well
4) use a metal engagement tab in the mag catch that is as hard as the mag itself
5) reduce the outward protrusion of the thumb engagement pad of the mag catch so it is less likely to be inadvertantly touched and if it is inadvertantly touched, the longer required travel and stiffer spring will prevent an undesired mag drop.

It's quite clear that S&W is very aware of this serious problem... I believe they are working on it... but why S&W hasn't done these things yet I have no idea... I'm certain that these changes would make the mag drop problem disappear FOREVER.

I'm still after them on this and not ready (yet) to ditch my M&P, because I love everything else about the gun. I'm hoping for a permanent fix! In the meantime, I have my newly purchased and ultra trusty Glocks which I'm becoming verry familiar with (and loving) and getting a LOT of range time in with (Glock 19, 23, 29, and 30).

 

[tydephan]

DHART,

Can you keep us posted on your issue with the mag dropping? I have read about it on Mp-pistol.com as well.

I'm interested in how this issue is resolved. I'm heading to the range this afternoon to shoot my newly purchased 9c. It is in the L range of serial #'s.

I have had zero problems with my full-size 9, after about 1000 rounds through it.

We'll see if i have any problems with the compact. I've got about 300 rounds of ammo that I intend to put through it, so we'll see.

 

[DennisE]

My M&P 9c has been flawless and it has a better trigger than the Glocks...it goes bang and hits what I aim at. Dennis

 

[DHart]

tydephan... hopefully you'll be fine with your Compact. Not everyone experiences these problems. Perhaps mine has an out of spec frame, a very weak mag spring, or something else... I don't know. I'll give S&W another opportunity to see what they can do. This is costing them big time in round trip overnight shipping. Twice now for this issue.

 

[Radjxf]

Don, hope they eventually get yours repaired satisfactorily. I must admit I've heard enough that it's making me wonder if I made a hasty decision getting an M&P?
One wonders, in the event you've had enough of that compact, will they replace the entire gun, give credit towards another model perhaps?

 

[johndoe1027]

My M&P9 compact has about 1750 rounds through it without EVER DROPPING THE MAG WHILE FIRING. I bought it in Feb 07 MPL55xx. No issues, great gun made in the US. No complaints other than I'm skinny and it prints sometimes with the wrong shirt on. I think I'm going to copy one of my M&P plugs into MS word so I can just reuse it all the time. I hate that some of them are having this mag release issue because IMO the M&P wins. It's tough endorsing the new kid on the block I guess.

I'd say get whichever fits your hand the best. Both are good guns.

 

[tydephan]

tydephan... hopefully you'll be fine with your Compact. Not everyone experiences these problems. Perhaps mine has an out of spec frame, a very weak mag spring, or something else... I don't know. I'll give S&W another opportunity to see what they can do. This is costing them big time in round trip overnight shipping. Twice now for this issue.

I won't consider myself lucky yet, but I did get 100 rounds downrange without a problem with the compact. I'm withholding judgement until I can reach the 1000 mark. I just didn't have time today to shoot the amount of ammo I wanted to. Hopefully I'll get some more time in with it this weekend.

My full size ran, as always, without a hiccup as well.

 

[Anna's Dad]

New M&P 9 just arrived today! Probably won't get to shoot it until next week.

Some how it managed to pick up a Beretta Bobcat on the way from Bud's. Weird how stuff like that happens. Oh well, I guess the hitchhiker is welcome to stay.

I am sending away for the 2 free mags and the range bag today--sounds like the mags arrive in about 2 weeks. Pretty good turnaround for a freebee.

 

[Spiff_P239]

I picked up my M&P9c today, cleaned it, and took it to the range for a quick session. Fired 150 trouble free rounds. However, I did notice that with some of the 124 +P Speer Gold Dot rounds, it seemed as though the rounds hung up slightly on the feed ramp but then went fully into the chamber. It felt kind of like a 2-step process. I'm guessing it's because the gun hasn't been broken in yet as it was the first time it had seen range action. Anybody else experience this?

PS Link for the free range bag promotion:
http://www.shootingusa.com/LATEST_UPDATES/GUN_A_MONTH/GAM_Offer/gam_offer.html

 

[DHart]

Called S&W today, they're sending a call tag to me for another trip back to the mothership. Hopefully they'll figure out a solution this time. Another mag catch just ain't going to cut it. Probably need a new frame... we'll see.

 

[Coronach]

Yeah, I'm actually hoping you have an out-of-spec frame.

Mike

 

[jon_in_wv]

I have a compact and a fullsize 9mm M&P. I have had exactly ZERO problems with either of them. My compact is my carry gun and it is also one of the most accurate and reliable guns I own. I highly suspect the cause of the "mag drop" problem is a combination of a weak spring and shooters mistakenly pressing the button as they shoot. Sounds similar to the AUDI instant acceleration deal from a few years back when people would press the gas pedal and SWEAR they were pressing the brake and the harder the pressed it the faster it went. Eventually, AUDI adjusted the size and shape of its pedals and added an interlock so the car couldn't be put into drive without the brake depressed. It was a simple problem of design contributing to operator error.

Well regardless, nothing is going to replace my M&Ps anytime soon.

 

[tydephan]

My compact is my carry gun and it is also one of the most accurate and reliable guns I own.

What are you using as a carry right for your compact? I've emailed with Comp-tac about obtaining an IWB that could be used for both the full size and the mid size, and they say that I'll need their "slide" version of a CTAC. That way, both pistols could be used in the same holster. I think that's probably what I'm going to end up doing, but was just interested in how you were carrying.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I carry my compact in a Desantis Cozy Partner. I have heard great things about the Comp-Tac and I plan to order one next week. I think it would conceal my M&P wiht a bit less bulk than the Cozy Partner.