jcwit
member
Like Herman Cain said, America needs to learn how to take a joke. No politics implied here.
M1 CARBINE loads
- Thread starter Nutbustd
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skidooman603
Member
Yikes...never trim .30 carbine? It is the one ( well I guess I check em all ) caliber I ALWAYS make sure is trimmed to length.
Everybody, I do trim to Lyman's#49 specs. I weighted some case and found that some were 66.3g new cases were 74.5g no trimming needed. I secured another set of calipers and the Matco calipers measured .308 in stead of .306. I loaded the heavier cases with no primer or powder to see if the much lighter cases could be a problem. Bullet held great in the heavier cases, even with out crimp. I bilieve that it is possible that the cases that are used are very light on brass and may have been used a lot and trimmed a lot. I measured the walls of both used and new and the new were thicker. Have any of you had cases, that have a lot of usage , get a little thin and no longer have the strenght of new? I think I may have some here. I know that this is getting to be a long post BUT reloading quality ammo for my carbines is important. In the military I learned to ASK if not sure. Again thank you for all the great posts and funny posts Nutbustd US Army Ret.
jcwit
member
Lets start over here. Be sure your cases are trimmed to 1.290 overall length. This is to specs.
Jacketed bullets should measure .308 in diameter and the lead bullets that I cast and size are sized to .310, this works well for me as I have slugged my bore and usually use lead bullets 1 to 2 thousands oversize so as to prevent gas blowby.
The primers I use are the CCI M41 small rifle primers for military rounds, I also recommend as an alternative Magnum primers as they have a slightly harder/heavier cup there buy alimenting slamfire.
Do not worry much about case weight, I have yet to weigh cases to check for strength. Almost without exception your case mouth will split upon firing thereby letting you know that that case is no longer usable. You should not run into any trouble doing it this way.
Keep your powder charge within reloading manuals limits. I happen to load mine with 12 1/2 grains of 4227 IMR powder, this works well for me, cycling the action well and very acceptable accuracy.
Hope this helps
There's your sign.
Its a joke guys. Loosen up!
Jacketed bullets should measure .308 in diameter and the lead bullets that I cast and size are sized to .310, this works well for me as I have slugged my bore and usually use lead bullets 1 to 2 thousands oversize so as to prevent gas blowby.
The primers I use are the CCI M41 small rifle primers for military rounds, I also recommend as an alternative Magnum primers as they have a slightly harder/heavier cup there buy alimenting slamfire.
Do not worry much about case weight, I have yet to weigh cases to check for strength. Almost without exception your case mouth will split upon firing thereby letting you know that that case is no longer usable. You should not run into any trouble doing it this way.
Keep your powder charge within reloading manuals limits. I happen to load mine with 12 1/2 grains of 4227 IMR powder, this works well for me, cycling the action well and very acceptable accuracy.
Hope this helps
There's your sign.
Its a joke guys. Loosen up!
Sport45
Member
Nutbustd said:
13.8gr of Ramshot Enforcer under a 100gr Hornady short-jacket bullet lit off with a Wolf SRM primer has been working well in mine.
And I agree that if you get the right diameter bullets they'll work fine. The expander on your belling die should be at least .005" smaller than the bullet.
T Bran
Member
It is possible that your cases are work hardened and need to be annealed. When you resize them they may be springing back to a larger dimension than the sizing die. After sizing one measure the ID of the case and see what you get. After this anneal the case and resize again. Compare the two ID measurements if it is the same I'm wrong if the annealed case is smaller you have your culprit.
Just a thought.
T
Just a thought.
T
jcwit
member
Not if you're using cast lead bullets. Expander needs to be just a couple/few thousands LARGER than the bullet, otherwise its probable the lead will be shaved off.
Using the right sized bullet, with the right lube, with the right powder charge will elimate leading in almost all cases.
Only cartridge I've never been able to master is the 9mm x 18 Luger in any of my 9mm pistols. I have no problem with leading with 45 ACP, 380 ACP, 38 spec, 357 mag., 9 mm Large,, 32 ACP, just can't seem to unlock the secret to 9mm.
skidooman603
Member
Just a note on CCI 41 mil primers. For whatever reason some people have had issues with them in carbines. Can't explain it but unless your firing pin is in tip top condition I have and others have had ignition issues. Ive heard all the arguments that one doesnt have a "harder cup" than the other...One is just a magnum primer marketed as Military etc. Just saying when I switched back to plain old sm rifle primers...no more issue...just sayin..
jcwit
member
Well, Hey! If it works, it works!!!!
Well guys, The input was terrific, But my son and I bilieve the problem is brass related. I took my Matco micrometer from work and measured the Xtreme bullets as they were .308 the Matco is calibrated to .0005" I checked it againt a 1inch calibration steel bar. On the money. However, the brass walls are a little thin compared to my new brass. I think this used brass has been "worked" quite a bit and flexibility was not good. Thus proper tension on bullet when seated was weak. Many suggested anneal the brass and it will spring back. I guess I have to learn how, but in the interest of safety and both of the carbines my Dad left me I will use new. Had no problem with new. Everybody thank you so much for the great advice, I learned a lot. Nutbustd US Armt Ret. God Bless America!!
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Sport45
Member
I haven't had any trouble with lead shaving. I use enough bell so I can start a flat based bullet into the case before running it up into the seating die. I often get the "snake eating a gopher" effect, but I'm not lacking for neck tension.
jcwit
member
Sport45 are you using cast lead bullets?
Sport45
Member
Not with the .30 Carbine, but I use cast bullets for pretty much all of my handgun reloading. I'll have to admit thought, that I didn't measure the expander, really just assumed they were smaller than bullet diameter as I know they leave the case smaller. I'll go measure one now...
Did you mean 9x19 Luger in your post above? I never had any luck with cast bullets in that one either. The leading wasn't too bad, but the lube gunked up the actions way too fast.
On edit:
I just measured the expander part of the powder funnel for some of my Dillon sets.
Did you mean 9x19 Luger in your post above? I never had any luck with cast bullets in that one either. The leading wasn't too bad, but the lube gunked up the actions way too fast.
On edit:
I just measured the expander part of the powder funnel for some of my Dillon sets.
- .45acp / .45 Colt .448"
- .44spl / .44mag .427"
- .38spl / .357mag .354"
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Fatelvis
Member
I would first clean and measure the expander ball. Make sure it's .307" or smaller.
I ran into a problem similar to this while loading LC .308 cases for my match M1A. I was using a Redding FL bushing die, with the correct sized bushing, but I was getting very little, (if any) bullet pull. I called Redding, and they said that this was common when sizing relatively thick GI brass, and sizing it down considerably. Their solution was to go to the next smaller bushing. It worked perfectly. I hate to say it, but the sizer you are using may not be sizing the neck enough for .308" bullets. Good luck!
I ran into a problem similar to this while loading LC .308 cases for my match M1A. I was using a Redding FL bushing die, with the correct sized bushing, but I was getting very little, (if any) bullet pull. I called Redding, and they said that this was common when sizing relatively thick GI brass, and sizing it down considerably. Their solution was to go to the next smaller bushing. It worked perfectly. I hate to say it, but the sizer you are using may not be sizing the neck enough for .308" bullets. Good luck!
... Assuming the bullets are in fact .308" diameter; Rem and others call for a .307" spec for their ".30 Carbine" bullets, and the sizer ball/expander/sizer die dims would have to compliment this for any hope of good neck tension. Even bullets spec'd .308" could not be so; I still have a batch of M80 bullets that mic right around .3072", and neck tension is lousy with the many calibers I try to use them in. Always checking bullet diameters before loading, at times fixes/explains what seem like problems elsewhere.
Maj Dad
Member
A Note On Case Stretching
I don't recall seeing anyone mention stretching, so let me chime in. I have reloaded for carbines for nearly 40 years, and I, too, have cases I have had almost that long. But I am cautious about visually and internally checking them for signs of case head stretching & potential separation - I shoot pretty much one load, and it is pretty much near or at maximum (14.5 gr 296 or 13.5 gr WC 820 with either 110 FMJs or RCBS 115 gr LRNGCs). I have found cases with considerable stretching and what looked to be imminent separation after a few near-complete separations motivated me to pay more attention. I use the high-tech method of a piece of stiff wire, about paper clip size, with the tip tapered and polished off (you don't want it too sharp or it won't slide smoothly) and about 1/8th inch or so bent at 90 deg. I hold the case & insert the wire into the case down to the web and slowly pull it out several times in the head area, feeling for an indented ring indicative of stretching & thinning. I was surprised at the number of cases I tossed initially, but it seems to ease off after getting rid of the older & weaker cases. I stll pay attention to it, but haven't reloaded as much lately after stocking up on the CMP ball a few years back. I would recommend that anyone reloading the carbine, or indeed, any high-pressure cartridge where the cases are reused multiple times to check them with a critical eye whenever reloading them. Avoids aggravations and potential firearm (and human!) damage...
Just my two cents
George J.
I don't recall seeing anyone mention stretching, so let me chime in. I have reloaded for carbines for nearly 40 years, and I, too, have cases I have had almost that long. But I am cautious about visually and internally checking them for signs of case head stretching & potential separation - I shoot pretty much one load, and it is pretty much near or at maximum (14.5 gr 296 or 13.5 gr WC 820 with either 110 FMJs or RCBS 115 gr LRNGCs). I have found cases with considerable stretching and what looked to be imminent separation after a few near-complete separations motivated me to pay more attention. I use the high-tech method of a piece of stiff wire, about paper clip size, with the tip tapered and polished off (you don't want it too sharp or it won't slide smoothly) and about 1/8th inch or so bent at 90 deg. I hold the case & insert the wire into the case down to the web and slowly pull it out several times in the head area, feeling for an indented ring indicative of stretching & thinning. I was surprised at the number of cases I tossed initially, but it seems to ease off after getting rid of the older & weaker cases. I stll pay attention to it, but haven't reloaded as much lately after stocking up on the CMP ball a few years back. I would recommend that anyone reloading the carbine, or indeed, any high-pressure cartridge where the cases are reused multiple times to check them with a critical eye whenever reloading them. Avoids aggravations and potential firearm (and human!) damage...
Just my two cents
George J.
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