M1 CARBINE loads

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Nutbustd

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Hi everybody, I just started to work up loads for my M1 Carbines my Dad left me. 1 is an Inland 1944 complete with a great bore and ME of only 1.5. Headspace was good on Fortner No-Go gauge.The other is a National Postal Meter 1944 also very similiar to the Inland in specs. I replaced all the springs with USGI springs on both. no after mkt of any kind. I bought Remington 110g ball and took her to the range. Shot outstanding. Now I want to load my own and would like you'all to let me know your best recipes if you don't mind. I know factory load in 1944 was 296-15g and FMJ 110g bullet. I have secured "once fired" brass to reload. My question is when I bell these cases to accept a new bullet the bullet would nearly fall in.Bullet was 110g FMJ size was .306 exact. I measured the bell and it was only 1.5thousand.I reset my RCBS die to only .001 and the same thing happened. I did trim to Lyman specs of course, sized and cleaned. Being a straight walled cartridge is it possible that the strength of the brass has lost it strength due to excessive trim over the years? I weighted every one of these cases and all were 66g to 68.8g. I weighted the new Remington and they were 73.2g. Some were 74 to 75g. The bullet DID NOT fall in these cases when belled the same. In fact it was nearly impossible to push the bullet in on the Remgington brass. I crimped a couple of the Remington cases and they were tight as a drum. I used a Lee taper crimp die. The used brass when crimped however, you could push the bullet in. Not with the Remington brass. What is your opionion of the used brass? should I use "new"? Brass is getting in short supply. The carbines my Dad left me are old but in excellent shape and very shootable. I want to shoot them with good safe brass. I do not want "out of battery" issues, just smooth feeding and shooting. Sorry about the length of the post. Good advice and experience are always welcome Thanks Guys:)
 
I assume you are properly sizing the brass. Are you sure the dies are set up right? And what kind of brass are you trying to reload? Headstamp? Have you miked the ID of the case after sizing it? What was that dimension? Something is definitely out of order here.

Start over, take it one step at a time, check your brass dimensions after each step, and you should be able to determine what's going wrong.
 
First, crimping will not hold the bullet, only neck tension will. If teh case mouth is toobig to begin with, no amount of crimping will hold it in place.

Either the resize die is too big or the expander ball is too big. Try not expanding the old cases and see if they hold the bullet. You may want to get another expander button, turn down the straight section so that you get a little belling of the case but no expansion of the mouth.

While it has been a couple years since I bought new 30 Carbine cases, after the great component shortage of 2009, they were reasonably available via mail order houses. Maybe inventories have dried up again.

Hope this helps.
 
My carbine dies do not use an expander plug, or have one for that matter. Have you trimmed all your cases to thje correct length, carbine cases are known to lengthen quickly. Age of the brass should have no bearing on the reloading, to a point of course, I have cases that have been reloaded many times, but always checked for length.

I'm not going to struggle thru all of your post, too hard to read. You need to learn how to compose sentences and paragraphs.
 
Loaded the .30C for many years, nearly exclusively with cast bullets and 2400. Way back in the '60s I was given two full pillow cases full of once fired GI brass. I'm still using that stuff, and I NEVER bother to trim. Lengthened cases have just never been a problem. That said, I AM familiar with the problem you describe. I believe you have brass that's work hardened to the point it springs back out of spec after being ran thu the resizer. Try annealing the stuff by sitting 3/4's of the case in water and playing a propane torch on the neck till it just begins to change color and then tip it over into the water to cool....That process will soften the neck and enable you to resize correctly. In my experience GI brass is notably harder than commercial and in every instance I can recall that's the stuff that resulted in the loose bullet issue.

It may also be that your bullets are slightly undersize. My cast stuff runs .308 and if the brass is good affords a good grip on the bullet.

Hope this helps.
 
Way back in the '60s I was given two full pillow cases full of once fired GI brass. I'm still using that stuff, and I NEVER bother to trim. Lengthened cases have just never been a problem.
Click to expand...

Be careful with that advice. The U.S. .30 carbine headspaces off the case mouth just as many straight walled pistol cases do. Unlike most pistol cases the carbine case does lenghten when resizing, and this could cause problems. Many say to only to resize carbine brass to 3/4 qtrs length, this will help.

Regarding bullets I use the 100 grain Lee bullet #90301, sized to .310, works great. These are cast from 2 ingots of range lead and 1 ingot of wheel weights.

Powder I use at present is 4227.
 
The U.S. .30 carbine headspaces off the case mouth just as many straight walled pistol cases do. Unlike most pistol cases the carbine case does lenghten when resizing, and this could cause problems.
Click to expand...

+1. The .30 Carbine is the "growingest" cartridge I load for. Like jcwit, I shoot a lot of cast bullets in my carbine. My bullets weigh about 105gr, are sized to .310", and I use 12.5gr of 2400 with them.

Don
 
Did you say your bullets were .306 or was that a typo. 30 cal bullets are .308 in every case I've seen. If this is not a typo then you have found the problem.
If I am mistaken please correct me.
T
 
you do know it's a not a straight walled case? it's tapered like a 9mm. either way it still reloads fine when your dies are set up right. you might find some case lube helpful. I trim ever other time or 2. I'm using a 120grn lead bullet over h110 at around 1450 fps.
 
Are you expanding first, then resizing? I think the .30 M1 is (backwards) from the normal reloading logic. You have to expand (bell) the mouth, then resize the case.
 
Are you expanding first, then resizing? I think the .30 M1 is (backwards) from the normal reloading logic. You have to expand (bell) the mouth, then resize the case
Click to expand...

No, I'm afraid not. You first size the case, then prime, then bell the case, then insert and seat the bullet which also takes the bell out of the case. This is the case with most all pistol cases that are straight walled or "tapered", that headspace on the case mouth.

you do know it's a not a straight walled case? it's tapered like a 9mm.
Click to expand...

Correct, but many refer to tapered cases for all pratical purposes as straight walled. They still headspace on the case mouth.
 
JCWIT

My set of RCBS dies states differently. Maybe it is only for my set of dies. I may very well be wrong, as I haven't loaded with this die set yet. I bought them from a local shop on their used rack for $12 a couple of monts ago. Heck, I figured that was a good deal, carbide RCBS dies for $12. I don't shoot my carbine much, but I do save the brass. I only recently bought bullets for them. I will scan the image tomorrow and post a copy.
 
Yup, I'd like to read that.

Check here for the instructions from the RCBS site


http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/ReloadingDieInstructions.pdf

Its deprime, size, prime, expand, seat bullet and crimp. My Lee dies do it the same way, as do the 9mm, 45 ACP, 38 spec, 357 mag, 9 mm Large, 40 S & W, 32 ACP, 380 ACP, 9 mm Makrov, ect., etc.


And its jcwit please, not JCWIT
 
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4895 said:
My set of RCBS dies states differently. Maybe it is only for my set of dies. I may very well be wrong, as I haven't loaded with this die set yet. I bought them from a local shop on their used rack for $12 a couple of monts ago. Heck, I figured that was a good deal, carbide RCBS dies for $12. I don't shoot my carbine much, but I do save the brass. I only recently bought bullets for them. I will scan the image tomorrow and post a copy.
Click to expand...

Some, or many, older die sets have the decapping pin in the mouth expander die. This could be the reason for thinking the mouth expanding is done first.

But, you still need to resize the body first before expanding the mouth.

Also, think about it, why expand the mouth when the resizer will take the flare out before you seat the bullet.

Also, most manufacturers of carbide 30 Carbine dies still recommend using lubricant with the die. It is because of the tapered walls. Some folks still use the dies without lubricant.
 
My set of RCBS dies states differently. Maybe it is only for my set of dies. I may very well be wrong, as I haven't loaded with this die set yet. I bought them from a local shop on their used rack for $12 a couple of monts ago. Heck, I figured that was a good deal, carbide RCBS dies for $12. I don't shoot my carbine much, but I do save the brass. I only recently bought bullets for them. I will scan the image tomorrow and post a copy.
Click to expand...

$12 for set of RCBS carbide dies... Damn that is a great price in almost any condition. Not imply any lack of knowledge, but are you sure they are carbide? Reason I ask, is my steel set from 1974 says "30 CARB" on the top of the sizer, and I can see how it could also be interpreted as "carbide". My set has the decapper in the expander die, and is not used as such. What I do is remove the decapping pin from the expander plug, and screw in the decapping stem from my set of 1978 RCBS 7mm Mag dies into the sizer. This way I can do size and prime at the same time as I like, and the expander ball from the stem has no influence. When you actually look down the length of a resized .30 carbine case, you can see just how "un-straight" it is, and the steel RCBS sizer does a good job of properly reforming case to it's correct dimensions. Good luck!
 
When you actually look down the length of a resized .30 carbine case, you can see just how "un-straight" it is, and the steel RCBS sizer does a good job of properly reforming case to it's correct dimensions. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Regarding the above:

30 Carbine is a straight walled case, it is not a parallel walled case.
Click to expand...

There's your sign!

Thank you cfullgraf
 
Thank you everybody for the input. Yes I do lube the cases, I deprime. clean, size, bell and primer, powder, install bullet, seat bullet and crimp. This order is right out of my RCBS directions. Same for 9mm, 357, 44mag etc. I contacted the bullet maker Xtreme Bullets they asked me to send several of the bullets back. I told them these bullets are measuring .306. Xtreme Bullets was most gracious and even offered to analyze the cases and bullets and call me back the next day with what is the problem. I will post the results. Again thank you all Nutbustd US Army Ret
 
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Quote:
When you actually look down the length of a resized .30 carbine case, you can see just how "un-straight" it is, and the steel RCBS sizer does a good job of properly reforming case to it's correct dimensions. Good luck!

Regarding the above:

Quote:
30 Carbine is a straight walled case, it is not a parallel walled case.

There's your sign!

Thank you cfullgraf
Click to expand...

What does "There's your sign" mean/intent/apply to/whatever to the the snippet of my posting?
 
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