M1 Carbine rear sights/distaste for cast loads

[Steve Marshall]

I have three carbines, all with the adjustable sights. On two of them, the rear sight moves due to recoil, which raises havoc with my plan to zero at 100 yards. Also, none of them like lead bullets, typically throwing 8" + groups at 100. All three like reloads with the Remington soft points,
So, my questions are. Can the rear sights be fixed in place and is it just my bad luck that they hate lead? My buddy's AO carbine does okay with them and based on that I loaded about 1500 rounds with 12.5 gr. of 2400 and Missouri Bullets cast bullets

 

[DPris]

I won't try lead in my M1 carbine, you may end up fouling the gas system severely.
They're not designed for lead projectiles.
2400 also may not be the best powder.
Denis

 

[trex1310]

While I don't have a M1 carbine, I have its 1st cousin, the Ruger
.44 magnum Deerfield. The owner's manual states that under no
circumstances use cast bullets (they will ruin gas system).

 

[HorseSoldier]

Rear sight loose like it needs to be staked in place? I had a carbine a few years back where the rear sight worked loose like that and accuracy went from pretty good for what it was to ridiculously bad. I knew a .mil armorer who liked to gunsmith in his spare time who squared it away in about 20 minutes.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The rear adjustable sight comes in two flavors, stamped and milled. Is the sight body moving in the dovetail or is it the peep moving in the ramp?

 

[Steve Marshall]

The peep is moving in the ramp. They end up shooting high.

 

[Tommygunn]

I have heard of people using lead bullets in the M1 carbine, but they use light loads and keep the velocity LOW.
The carbine was designed for military ball ammo. 110 grain FMJ ammo at about 1990 FPS.
I do not use lead bullets in my carbine. I don't really shoot it enough to matter but I just use commercial ball stuff. It's just easier.
You are having real bad luck with thoses rear sights. Steve Marshall is likely right the peep is moving along the ramp.
My carbine has the early "L" type flip sight and it is firmly planted in the dovetail....one good thing about that design. Simple = fewer problems.

 

[jcwit]

I won't try lead in my M1 carbine, you may end up fouling the gas system severely.
They're not designed for lead projectiles.

I disagree with this as I have way over 9,000 and getting close to 10,000 rounds thru my U.S. M1 Carbine with no gas system problems.

2400 also may not be the best powder.
Denis

Agreed. Steve I have no idea what bullet you're using other than its MBC. I cast my own with a Lee mold #90301, 311-100-2R, sized to .310, using my own lube consisting of Bees Wax, Parafine, Car Wax "carnuba" and Alox. Powder is IMR 4227 loaded at 12 1/2 grains.

I get absolutly NO leading, perfect function, and NO problems.

Don't know what to tell you about your sight as I've never had that problem with none of my carbines.

I have heard of people using lead bullets in the M1 carbine, but they use light loads and keep the velocity LOW.
The carbine was designed for military ball ammo. 110 grain FMJ ammo at about 1990 FPS.

I wouldn't call the load I listed above as a light load. I might add the bullets I referred to are flat base and non gas checked.

 

[USSR]

I agree with jcwit, have used cast bullets in the Carbine for years without problems. Mine are cast hard with a lot on monotype, weigh 105gr, and I use 12.5gr of 2400 powder with them.

Don

 

[greyling22]

jc and ussr, what kind of velocities are you guys getting out of your loads?

I'm running a 120gr LRN of linotype using 10 grn h110 at around 1400 fps. seems fairly accurate and cycles fine. I did lock up the gas piston one time but I got it lose and cleaned out the system. Works great again. I agree that a jacketed bullet is probably better, but they're just so darn expensive.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Rear sight problems...

Re: the OP's problems with his rear sight: My M1 Carbine has BOTH problems the whole sight easily moves sideways in its dovetail (to the point of coming out and falling to the ground!) plus, the actual peep slides up and down its elevation ramp almost with abandon, certainly in response to recoil.

As to the whole sight sliding out of its dovetail, I've had a 'smith try to peen it in place, to no avail. The next suggestion was to try red Locktite, which frankly I'm a little hesitant to do, but I've got to do something.

As to the peep sliding in its elevation ramp, no one has had a suggestion as to how to cure it.

I really like the Carbine: Light, handy, 15 rounds, low recoil. But I'd like mine better with a dependable rear sight!

 

[jcwit]

greyling22--According to the manuals I'm in the neighborhood of 1750 to 1800 fps with my cast reloads. My carbines are fun guns as I use them to shoot 4 x 4 x 2 inch pieces of foam insulation at the band/backstop which is 70 yds away. Goal is to hit the foam 10 out of 10 times off hand, usually accomplished.

I'd consider that fairly good shooting offhand with cast loads.

 

[greyling22]

indeed. Offhand my front sight tends to bob around like a drunk indian. I'm surprised you can push a lead bullet that fast without leading or gascheck. usually you run into problems north of 1500 or 1600 fps. But if it works, don't change it.

but back to the rear sight, sounds like yours is all goofed up. I'd just buy a new one. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=...187_a_7c745_a_7c100004084_d_100004084_d_10896

or an original http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310323549691&hlp=false

 

[Steve Marshall]

Well I think I might have a solution to the peep sliding in the ramp. First, I'm going to give them a severe talking to. There might be an occasional foul word. If that doesn't work, at least on the Universal, I'll attempt to jam someting in there.
As to not liking lead, I'm not experiencing malfunctions, just atrocious "accuracy". In all three. All shoot the Remington 110 SP well- I've even shot one flukey, HTG, 3" 5 shot group with them.

 

[jcwit]

As to not liking lead, I'm not experiencing malfunctions, just atrocious "accuracy". In all three. All shoot the Remington 110 SP well- I've even shot one flukey, HTG, 3" 5 shot group with them.

What pray tell is the distance?
If its 10 feet, accuracy is atrocious.
If its 200 yards it fairly good, no?

 

[Tommygunn]

I have heard of people using lead bullets in the M1 carbine, but they use light loads and keep the velocity LOW.
The carbine was designed for military ball ammo. 110 grain FMJ ammo at about 1990 FPS.

I wouldn't call the load I listed above as a light load. I might add the bullets I referred to are flat base and non gas checked.

OK. I was just sayin' what I'd heard. I think a lot of people say you "shouldn't" use cast bullets in a gas system gun because it "might" foul it, without actually checking to see if it actually does. It does (atleast to me) seem reasonable to think the gas hole might "shave" a bit of lead and eventually plug up somehow. Maybe it does on some, just not on your guns, or maybe it doesn't on any gun....I dunno.
I don't reload so I wouldn't be able to check myself.
Anyway, if your guns work well with your load, then I say more power to you!

 

[USSR]

jc and ussr, what kind of velocities are you guys getting out of your loads?

Never bothered to chronograph it. It does what I want, and that's good enough for me. I would estimate it at near 1800fps.

Don

 

[Steve Marshall]

The distance was 100 yards with the Universal. Like I said, it was a fluke.

 

[Nuclear]

Well, let's see, the gun (and therefore the sight) is about 67 years old. Who knows what all has happened to it in that time? (Besides a major war and a couple of smaller ones) If the sight is loose, your options are either to peen or locktite the existing sight or replace it (from your description, I'd replace). As to the not liking cast lead bullets, it was designed and built for FMJs. Also, you may very well have to tune your load for each rifle. I only handload for one caliber and I have no expectations that if I switched guns it would be accurate in the new gun.

 

[Steve Marshall]

I will not spend money on something that could probably be fixed with a tooth pick or a dose of Loc-Tite or or..... I suppose there must be someone, somewhere who has stated "Beware the man who reloads one cartridge". I, personally would not subscribe to that theory.

 

[MichaelK]

Hi Steve
The sight on my M1 was also loose and sliding back and forth, so what I did was drill and tap a hole in the sight so I could thread in a headless screw that sat flush with the top of the sight.

First I peened the ears of the dovetail of the receiver, just enough to hold the sight in place, then I screwed the screw in place to lock it's position.

It's worked perfectly.

BTW, I've shot nothing but Lyman's cast 130 grain round nose in my M1 for years and have had ZERO problems. It's cast in Lyman #2 alloy in front of 11.5 grains of H110, the powder created for the M1 carbine.

 

[Steve Marshall]

MichaelK- that was one of the things I thought about. My concern was drill walk. That and the possibility of breaking a tap. Did you use a set screw which bore onto the receiver versus into the receiver? As to the lead. No problems except inaccuracy. And I have tried 296 and AA#9. They weren't so hot either.

 

[Art Eatman]

Super Glue. Hey, it's held an add-on tooth in my upper plate for over a year, now.

 

[dogrunner]

Far as shooting cast in a carbine goes..........well I'm really surprised to find they don't work!................Especially after running an unknown many thousands thru my M/2 on both full and semi for nearly 45 years!

I use my personally cast version of Lyman's 311359, sized .308, gas checked and lubed with Javelina brand alox over 12 to 14 grains of 2400 with excellent accuracy and 100% function. I have NEVER experienced a crapped up piston as so many claim will occur, I HAVE noted a light wash on the comp, but that wipes off with a bit of Hoppe's when cleaning.

It occurs that an awful lot of self appointed experts will pronounce some absolutism in this game while possessing utterly no real experience......all I can say is that if you ain't done it, shut up about it!!!!! IF you have, then illuminate us with your take and how you managed it!

 

[MichaelK]

MichaelK- that was one of the things I thought about. My concern was drill walk. That and the possibility of breaking a tap. Did you use a set screw which bore onto the receiver versus into the receiver? As to the lead. No problems except inaccuracy. And I have tried 296 and AA#9. They weren't so hot either.

Here's how I did it. I have a set of center punches I bought at the flea market for 6$. I center punched a dimple in the base of the sight first. I then drilled it with a #31 drill bit on a drill press (Home Depot). After the hole was drilled, I replaced the bit with a 6-48 tap and tapped the hole without disturbing the position of the sight. Just remember to lubricate the tap, and twist it in reverse every turn or two to dislodge the cutting chips. I recyled a headless screw that was used to fill the scope-mount holes on another rifle. I used the same center punch to make a small dimple on the bottum of the dovetail that the screw would settle into, but I did not drill out any metal from the receiver.


Sorry you can't make cast work for you. My carbine loves cast and I never use anything else now.