M1 Carbine v. AR-15
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Doc Samson
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The AR has more "adaptability" options and better ammo selection/availability but either one would be fine. Biggest key is which one you are more comfortable training with...
Armored farmer
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The 10.5" AR pistol is my choice if you're starting from scratch on a HD project gun.
So many options you can choose.
So many options you can choose.
trackskippy
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I have both, and Id choose the AR over the Carbine without a thought. I like both, but the AR just makes more sense.
The two things I see the Carbine has going against it, are reliability, and lack (for the most part) of a good 24/7 optic.
Ive owned a number of Carbines and they arent stellar in the reliability department. And you know if anything is going to go wrong, exactly when that will likely be.
This isn't the mid 20th century anymore and a good red dot beats iron sights, hands down.
The two things I see the Carbine has going against it, are reliability, and lack (for the most part) of a good 24/7 optic.
Ive owned a number of Carbines and they arent stellar in the reliability department. And you know if anything is going to go wrong, exactly when that will likely be.
This isn't the mid 20th century anymore and a good red dot beats iron sights, hands down.
AlexanderA
Member
No question that the AR is superior in every way.
AlexanderA
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I would consider that a "throwaway" in the same sense that some people have burner phones. Something you could use for self defense and then not worry about when the police seize it for evidence.
JJFitch
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The 30 carbine is basically a pistol cartridge and may be a good choice in some scenarios where over penetration is a concern! Reliability? It was the most prolific firearm during WWII! Not sure it would have seen that much use if reliability was an issue!
Who needs a "red dot" in a HOME S/D long gun? That means bringing the firearm up to eye level for shot placement, "no bueno"!
My home defense long gun is an AR9, 16" bbl, with 1000 lumen light and green laser. Less chance for over penetration and my wife shoots it like a drill motor out to 100 yards!
I'm relegated to a tactical 12-gauge pump with the same light /laser combo. Nothing says, "just leave" like the sound oof a 12gauge being "racked"! With 9, 38 caliber balls at 1350 FPS it's formidable to 40 yards and beyond!
Smiles,
Who needs a "red dot" in a HOME S/D long gun? That means bringing the firearm up to eye level for shot placement, "no bueno"!
My home defense long gun is an AR9, 16" bbl, with 1000 lumen light and green laser. Less chance for over penetration and my wife shoots it like a drill motor out to 100 yards!
I'm relegated to a tactical 12-gauge pump with the same light /laser combo. Nothing says, "just leave" like the sound oof a 12gauge being "racked"! With 9, 38 caliber balls at 1350 FPS it's formidable to 40 yards and beyond!
Smiles,
someguy2800
Member
We had different expectations for reliability in a semi auto back then. A 20 round semi auto that has an easily clearable stovepipe or miss feed every few mags is still an improvement over a 5 shot bolt action. Today we expect 100% reliability which the carbine was never known to deliver.
trackskippy
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Reliability is certainly an issue with them. Clearing the stoppages generally isn't a big deal, but it happens enough with a "good" gun for it to be a concern. There are a lot of Carbines out there that dont qualify as "good" as they are found, not that they cant be with some work. And even then, they usually arent 100%.
I think youre going to find that if 9mm is a worry about penetration in structures, 30Carbine certainly is.
If you're going to bother using long gun, why bother hip shooting with it, except in the worst case? Its an even dumber idea if you dont regularly practice shooting that way to be comfortable and competent doing so. I was always taught to deliberately shoot what it is I wanted shot, not just shoot "at" them.
A red dot is a 24/7 sight that requires nothing more from you than put the gun and dot on the target and shoot. The dot appears on the target where you're looking as the gun comes up, and you dont have to go look for it like you do with a laser.
The only thing racking a shotgun (or anything else) does, is tell the other guy where you are, and that you are dumb enough to come to a gunfight with an unloaded gun.
I think youre going to find that if 9mm is a worry about penetration in structures, 30Carbine certainly is.
If you're going to bother using long gun, why bother hip shooting with it, except in the worst case? Its an even dumber idea if you dont regularly practice shooting that way to be comfortable and competent doing so. I was always taught to deliberately shoot what it is I wanted shot, not just shoot "at" them.
A red dot is a 24/7 sight that requires nothing more from you than put the gun and dot on the target and shoot. The dot appears on the target where you're looking as the gun comes up, and you dont have to go look for it like you do with a laser.
The only thing racking a shotgun (or anything else) does, is tell the other guy where you are, and that you are dumb enough to come to a gunfight with an unloaded gun.
1KPerDay
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So many things wrong with this post that I can’t formulate a High Road appropriate response
MachIVshooter
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The only thing an M1 carbine does better than an AR is be nostalgic.
sarduy
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The mind is the weapon, the gun is the tool, both guns are capable of defending your home. The question is are you willing to do it and do you have the training to do so effectively?
this is the 21st century, get yourself a modern 10.3-14.5 AR and call it a day.
this is the 21st century, get yourself a modern 10.3-14.5 AR and call it a day.
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bannockburn
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jski
Yes and that would be the more modular and adaptable AR platform versus the 80+ year old design of the M1 Carbine.
Yes and that would be the more modular and adaptable AR platform versus the 80+ year old design of the M1 Carbine.
earplug
Member
Does size matter? If so I'd favor the M1.
entropy
Member
So you prefer to give away your position and be down a round in a gun that hold 5-8 to begin with?
I'm not betting my life on that. My shotgun sits with a full tube and one in the pipe. Maybe they'll hear the 'snick' of the safety, but I doubt it. My AR pistol sits with the chamber empty, full mag inserted, only because SWMBO insisted on it, because it is her HD gun. As for bringing a shoulder arm to the shoulder; yes, outside of contact/grabbing distance, it's always best to do so.As for the M1 Carbine, it is what my aunt has for an HD gun. She doesn't like AR's, she loves the Carbine and is a good shot with it. Works for her.
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Dave DeLaurant
Member
Both will work, so I think the choice comes down to love.
The AR platform has a lot of plusses and will cream the M1 Carbine almost every time in a 1-to-1 competition settings. Not surprising, given the advanced optics, flatter trajectory, greater terminal energy, improved ergonomics and generally greater reliability.
But in home defense, we're very, very rarely talking dynamic shooting at multiple targets, different ranges and high round counts. The Carbine is powerful enough, particularly with more modern bullet selection, and the M1 holds more than enough ammo. If you love it more, the M1 Carbine should do just fine.
The AR platform has a lot of plusses and will cream the M1 Carbine almost every time in a 1-to-1 competition settings. Not surprising, given the advanced optics, flatter trajectory, greater terminal energy, improved ergonomics and generally greater reliability.
But in home defense, we're very, very rarely talking dynamic shooting at multiple targets, different ranges and high round counts. The Carbine is powerful enough, particularly with more modern bullet selection, and the M1 holds more than enough ammo. If you love it more, the M1 Carbine should do just fine.
CapnMac
Member
In favor of the Carbine:
Light, handy, points near-naturally. Rather a huge advantage in that it was deliberately designed as an SD arm meant to replace a pistol. Traditional appearance does not immediately offend ninnyhammers.
Against the Carbine:
Hard to acquire. Very limited ammo selection (esp w/ regard to feeding & reliability). Very limited ability to mount optics or other targeting aids. User has to adapt to fit the arm and not vice versa. Lastly, sound suppression is not as "off the shelf" as with an AR.
In favor of the AR:
Ubiquitous. Available in nearly every caliber and configuration. Can be fit with any number of optics & aiming aids.
Against the AR:
All Ninnyhammers--"IZZA MACHINE GUHN!!! Not as light (7# versus 5#). May not (depends on the wielder) handle as naturally. Too many choices in caliber, loading, and configuration (the newb is faced with having to select a single blade of grass in a huge field). Too easy to pile on accessories that just add weight and decrease handling.
Now, if we narrow the question a bit-like a "straight up" M4gery in 5.56x45 versus an M-1 Carbine; that's really down to sights and ammo and availability. Which gives an edge, if slight, to the M4.
Light, handy, points near-naturally. Rather a huge advantage in that it was deliberately designed as an SD arm meant to replace a pistol. Traditional appearance does not immediately offend ninnyhammers.
Against the Carbine:
Hard to acquire. Very limited ammo selection (esp w/ regard to feeding & reliability). Very limited ability to mount optics or other targeting aids. User has to adapt to fit the arm and not vice versa. Lastly, sound suppression is not as "off the shelf" as with an AR.
In favor of the AR:
Ubiquitous. Available in nearly every caliber and configuration. Can be fit with any number of optics & aiming aids.
Against the AR:
All Ninnyhammers--"IZZA MACHINE GUHN!!! Not as light (7# versus 5#). May not (depends on the wielder) handle as naturally. Too many choices in caliber, loading, and configuration (the newb is faced with having to select a single blade of grass in a huge field). Too easy to pile on accessories that just add weight and decrease handling.
Now, if we narrow the question a bit-like a "straight up" M4gery in 5.56x45 versus an M-1 Carbine; that's really down to sights and ammo and availability. Which gives an edge, if slight, to the M4.
Speedo66
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Which degree of deafness would you prefer?
ECVMatt
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I think considering the shooter is important as well. I have tried for years to get my wife to love the AR. She loves to shoot it, as long as I load it, charge it, put it on safe and hand it her. After many years of trying with the AR, we settled on a Ruger PC Carbine because of its similarity to a 10/22 which she likes. Before this we tried the Ruger Mini 14 and M1 Carbine. She likes these because to her they are simple to use. So I think it is better to use an M1 Carbine for a shooter that prefers it rather than try to force them to like another platform. Having said that, I am an AR guy all the way.
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Skinny Pete
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Both will do the job just fine, period
Pick whichever you have/like/want/etc, train with it and use it
That said... Me personally, if had to choose between the two I would take the M1 Carbine
The cartridge will be just as capable as the 5.56 and in some ways it will be better
The most obvious being far less blast and flash for use in an enclosed area
Firing a 16" or less 5.56 indoors will ring ones bell
Pick whichever you have/like/want/etc, train with it and use it
That said... Me personally, if had to choose between the two I would take the M1 Carbine
The cartridge will be just as capable as the 5.56 and in some ways it will be better
The most obvious being far less blast and flash for use in an enclosed area
Firing a 16" or less 5.56 indoors will ring ones bell
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Carl N. Brown
Member
I have shot my M1 Carbine a lot and shot a few seasons of military matches with my son's AR-15 M4gery. I would expect my Carbine with softnose hunting ammo to be equally effective. Both guns were reliable. I deliberately did not strip and detail clean them until the end of the match season. The AR is noticeably louder and harder on my ears.
"... reason to prefer one over the other ..."
After an incident that involved shooting, the Carbine would leave me with better hearing. The distinctive supersonic crack of the .223 is ear piercing.
"... reason to prefer one over the other ..."
After an incident that involved shooting, the Carbine would leave me with better hearing. The distinctive supersonic crack of the .223 is ear piercing.
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rbernie
Contributing Member
If you believe that HD / SD is best served with a gun that can be physically adapted to fit the shooter, can easily mount an optic and a light, uses commonly-available ammo, and for which spare parts and consumables are less inexpensive and readily available - then the AR is your huckleberry. If none of that matters to you, well, then none of that matters to you.
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