M16 myths

[Jerry M]

Cooper called the gun the “poodle shooter” and it was a title he chose after more life experience than any on this board will ever have.

With that being said, their have been some advantages to the Armalite in more recent years that I personally think The Colonel would have been pleased with. But I shall take my rifles in calibers starting with a “3” well before the hot .22 rounds.

The 'poodle shooter' has successfully served longer than any platform fielded by the US military. The Russians recognized the small & fast benefit and came out with the 5.45x39 mm in the AK-74. First fielded in Afghanistan. Apparently others don't believe him either.

Cooper also tried very unsuccessful to shot a Cape Buffalo with a .350 Remington Magnum... I met him, he was a good man, fantastic story teller. I don't believe he walked on water.

 

[Sistema1927]

M16 myths? There was one guy in my Basic Training company who had trouble qualifying, but told our Drill Sergeant that it shouldn't matter since everyone knows that no matter where you hit someone using an M16, the bullet will tumble and always be a death shot.

 

[Zygodactyl]

M16 myths? There was one guy in my Basic Training company who had trouble qualifying, but told our Drill Sergeant that it shouldn't matter since everyone knows that no matter where you hit someone using an M16, the bullet will tumble and always be a death shot.

He probably read that Life Magazine article that came out in the mid 60's. It wrote about a special forces unit that was testing Air Force AR 15's in Vietnam. The author claimed that a hit anywhere would cause catastrophic damage. A hit in the neck would cause a beheading. A man shot in the back would have his heart blown out of his chest. A hit in the wrist would take an arm off at the shoulder. The Author claimed the bullet always tumbled on impact. The article made an impression on this seventh grader.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Cooper called the gun the “poodle shooter” and it was a title he chose after more life experience than any on this board will ever have.

With that being said, their have been some advantages to the Armalite in more recent years that I personally think The Colonel would have been pleased with. But I shall take my rifles in calibers starting with a “3” well before the hot .22 rounds.

That's cute.

 

[jeepnik]

I'll state my opinion based on field experience. The M16 was, is and will always be a POS forced onto GI's. Younger folks may be easily brainwashed but there you have it.

 

[Tommygunn]

I'll state my opinion based on field experience. The M16 was, is and will always be a POS forced onto GI's. Younger folks may be easily brainwashed but there you have it.

Wow. Don't hold back; tell us what you really think!!!!!

 

[dranrab]

Mil-Spec

People who have non-military rifles think they have a mil-spec rifle.

 

[derek45]

Colonel Cooper was a great man, who really pushed pistolcraft away from bullseye to what we are doing today.

but he was wrong about the M16

It's an excellent weapon.

I dare state that there are probably 20 plus people on this forum with more combat experience than Col. Cooper, and they did it with 5.56NATO weapons.

 

[Armorer 101]

The original posting is very true, there were many myths created around he M-16 which we that carried them allowed to live because we used them in combat. So the more fearsome they appeared, the better, for us. However, today it is too common to be so fearsome and the M-16 of 1964 is not the M-16 of 2021 for many reasons, mostly improvement in every direction. It is a great short to medium range sporting rifle, especially for wild hogs and coyotes. available in a wide range of cartridges, especially if you reload.

 

[Hangingrock]

Cooper called the gun the “poodle shooter” and it was a title he chose after more life experience than any on this board will ever have.

With that being said, their have been some advantages to the Armalite in more recent years that I personally think The Colonel would have been pleased with. But I shall take my rifles in calibers starting with a “3” well before the hot .22 rounds.

Cooper's experience. WW2 commanded the Marine Detachment on the battleship USS Pennsylvania, Korea served in the Far-East but not in Korea and Viet-Nam did not serve. I have (7) books on Cooper, (4) of those books published by Wisdom Publishing authored by his daughter Lindy (Cooper) Wisdom.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I carried an M16A1, then an A2, and later an M4 for a couple of decades in 3 different infantry divisions. I have few real complaints about them. At times in the Middle East I wished I had an M16 rather than an M4 in the open spaces (or a .308 but that is a different question).

 

[Terry G]

M16A1. Never let me down. I kept it clean, 18 rounds in the magazine, not 20, and never a malfunction. The myth of the "One shot anywhere", I know it was a fluke, but I saw it. On a sweep in II Corps an NVA Lieutenant pops up thirty to forty feet in front of our point man who instantly shoot's him once in the left bicep. The Medic checks him out and say's he's dead. No other wounds the one shot killed him. The 19 year old Medic gives his official medical opinion that it was some kind of shock that stopped his heart. Strange thing from a strange war. Besides the weird death, what was the NVA Lt. doing out there all by himself? Taking a nap?

 

[CapnMac]

M16 myths see to all be extremes.
The furniture is either tough as adamantium or fragile as glass.
The issue ammo weaker than .22short or more monstrous than .450mag.
It's too long and too short.
It's as quiet as a whisper or loud as a howitzer (and can cause PTSD in less than a magazine).
Biggest myth is that it's exactly the same as an AR-15.

 

[12Bravo20]

Well I carried the M16A1 and M16A2 into combat and neither one let me down. I got out right before my unit received the M4 Carbines. Yes I heard lots of myths about the M16 while I was in the Army. I have yet to find any that were made by Mattel. It isn't from a lack of trying though

 

[d2wing]

M16A1. Never let me down. I kept it clean, 18 rounds in the magazine, not 20, and never a malfunction. The myth of the "One shot anywhere", I know it was a fluke, but I saw it. On a sweep in II Corps an NVA Lieutenant pops up thirty to forty feet in front of our point man who instantly shoot's him once in the left bicep. The Medic checks him out and say's he's dead. No other wounds the one shot killed him. The 19 year old Medic gives his official medical opinion that it was some kind of shock that stopped his heart. Strange thing from a strange war. Besides the weird death, what was the NVA Lt. doing out there all by himself? Taking a nap?

I remember hearing stories and being told that a shot in the arm would kill a man by an instructor before I went to Nam. I have no complaints about either the M-14 or M-16. I believe that the M-16 from 1969 were very accurate, very light and that the 3200 FPS 1 -n 12 twist made them better and more lethal than current clones.

 

[herrwalther]

The M16s of Vietnam were overly flouted. They didn't need to be cleaned because they were new age materials. Barrels would never get dirty. Can shoot them while waterlogged etc. It took awhile for that to be proven wrong and the stigma still remains. The military had 20 more years of growing pains after the rifle was improved to learn the magazines were causing malfunctions in the dusty environments of Iraq and Afghanistan. There is nothing mythical or cursed about the weapon, regardless of opinion. They are machines that when put in competent hands have taken out a lot of people over the years.

 

[Boattale]

The M16s of Vietnam were overly flouted. They didn't need to be cleaned because they were new age materials. Barrels would never get dirty. Can shoot them while waterlogged etc. It took awhile for that to be proven wrong and the stigma still remains. The military had 20 more years of growing pains after the rifle was improved to learn the magazines were causing malfunctions in the dusty environments of Iraq and Afghanistan. There is nothing mythical or cursed about the weapon, regardless of opinion. They are machines that when put in competent hands have taken out a lot of people over the years.

Clearly, you did not serve in Viet Nam with an M-16. We were trained otherwise then in the USMC. Never had a problem with mine. Will take one 10 times out of 10 to carry into combat over an M-14. Which I qualified with back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 

[Boattale]

Cooper called the gun the “poodle shooter” and it was a title he chose after more life experience than any on this board will ever have.

With that being said, their have been some advantages to the Armalite in more recent years that I personally think The Colonel would have been pleased with. But I shall take my rifles in calibers starting with a “3” well before the hot .22 rounds.

How much time did Cooper have in combat with an M-16? Any?

 

[Terry G]

How much time did Cooper have in combat with an M-16? Any?

Well, none of course. After my own experiences I still read Cooper but I was less inclined to take his opinions as Gospel. His opinion that the 1911 was the only worthwhile handgun for example. The 1911 will always be a great gun, I have one, but I carry a G21 or better still a CZ 97b. Times change.

 

[Hangingrock]

Clearly, you did not serve in Viet Nam with an M-16. We were trained otherwise then in the USMC. Never had a problem with mine. Will take one 10 times out of 10 to carry into combat over an M-14. Which I qualified with back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

There were problems notably "The Hill Fights" with the M16 rifle that the Marine Corps was first issued. USMC 1964-1968.

 

[herrwalther]

Clearly, you did not serve in Viet Nam with an M-16. We were trained otherwise then in the USMC. Never had a problem with mine. Will take one 10 times out of 10 to carry into combat over an M-14. Which I qualified with back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

No problems with mine that weren't determined to be magazine failure. Afghanistan is a significantly different operational environment compared to Vietnam.

 

[mshootnit]

Clearly, you did not serve in Viet Nam with an M-16. We were trained otherwise then in the USMC. Never had a problem with mine. Will take one 10 times out of 10 to carry into combat over an M-14. Which I qualified with back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Do you think the M16A3 is better than the M16A1?

 

[Goosey]

"As everyone knows, the .223 military cartridge was conceived as a means of obtaining something for nothing, in this case killing power without recoil ... If only a certain amount of recoil momentum is deemed endurable, we can use it to produce very high velocity by radically reducing projectile mass. Hence, a 55-grain bullet at a personally chronographed 3310 fps. This, as anyone who has used a .222 Remington Magnum knows, is a stinger. At short range its man-stopping properties, even with a hard, solid, spitzer bullet are impressive."

"... the AR15 will stay on a man at 200 yards and it will strike a mean blow at that range."

-Jeff Cooper

 

[Boattale]

Do you think the M16A3 is better than the M16A1?

Never so much as held an A3, so I can't say.

 

[herrwalther]

Do you think the M16A3 is better than the M16A1?

As far as I know, the A3 was just the full auto version of the M16A4. The A4, like the A2 had a three round burst setting instead of full auto. Other than that small internal difference, the A3 and A4 had quad rail handguards and flat top receivers. Rails add weight both by themselves and what you put on them. So an A1/A2 rifle is lighter compared to A3/A4. It would largely depend on what you had to augment your mission. If I was in a unit that had no optics, no lights, no lasers or anything fancy to make my rifle more effective, I would prefer an A2. Something similar to say if you are building an AR. Do you want a retro look and don't want to put anything on a rail? Build it like an A1 or A2, just without the third option on the safety.

Seems like a million years ago now but I learned marksmanship on the A2. A4 and M4s came later. All good rifles. You just had to adjust with the technology like starting with ironsights then going to red dots with BUIS or ACOGs.