M1A vs. DPMS .308 AR's

[TheDisturbed1]

Somethin on my mind...

After spending about 9 weeks in one paid job training spot and another 14 weeks in another paid job training spot (take a guess ), I'm gonna have a nice chunk of change and to me, huge chunk-o-change means time to add a new member to the family .

So my curiousities, my divine enquiry... In drooling over a few platforms to seek an accurate rifle that has potential. We allll love potential.

DPMS has some great looking rifles, in .308 I see them in the $1000 - $1400 range. (no perticular model in mind... yet)
S.A. has a long reputation and the M1A looking like an M14 for the homestead (instead of a battlefield) around $1100 - $1300 range depending on when or where you buy it.

2-.308 Rifles, both long guns (as in, over 20" or so), both are great to look at, both semi-auto, both magazine-fed, both of them carry the designs of American Pride...

If I had to choose between the two.. I'd be there all day trying to pick.

Advantages / Disadvantages?
Reliability / Unreliability?
Optics / Aftermarket Mods?

I know very little about the M1A but I know more about the AR platform (not in .308 though).

What do u guys think is best between the two?



[EDIT]
Rifle Specs:

LR-308
Barrel:
- 24" Bull barrel
- 416 Stainless steel
- 6 groove, right-handed 1x10 twist, button rifled
Chamber:
- .308 Winchester
Method of Operation:
- Gas operated rotating bolt
Bolt & Carrier:
8620 chrome-plated steel bolt carrier, heat treated per Mil Spec.
Phosphated 8620 steel bolt, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec.
Sights:
None (mounting optics only)
Weight:
Empty - 11.28 lbs
Length:
43.6"
Upper Receiver:
Thick walled, extruded from 6066-T6 aluminum
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Snag free design, smooth side look
No dust cover
No shell deflector
No forward assist
Right hand ejection
Raised Picatinny rail for easy scope mounting
Lower Receiver:
Milled from a solid billet of 6061-T6 aluminum
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Standard AR-15 trigger group
Integral trigger guard
Aluminum magazine release button
Stock:
Standard A2 black Zytel mil spec w/trap door assembly
Handguards:
Ribbed aluminum free float
2.24" Outside diameter

M1A
Action: Semi-Automatic
Stock: Synthetic,Black
Capacity: 10
Receiver: Matte Black
Sights: Front:Military Post Rear:Military Aperature
Barrel Length: 22"
Overall Length: 44 1/3"
Weight: 9.2lbs
Butt Plate Recoil Pad: Rubber Butt Plate
Muzzlebreak: Flash Suppressor
Additional Features 1: Fiberglass handguard,Chrome-lined barrel
Additional Features 2: 5-6lbs two-stage

 

[possum]

i would love to have both, and liek you i am sure that that is not possible, so i have always wanted an m1a more than any other gun ever so i would go with the m1a but that is a personal preference. personally i would take the m1a first and then later down the rd get the dpms.

mods/ though there are alot out there for both, i believe that there is gonna be more for the dpms as it is an ar platform. as well i believe that it would be easier to mount a scope on the dpms, finding a quality mount for an m1a is tuff but can be done and they are quite price but most great things are.

pro's/con's,
if you know the ar platform then i would say that you should go that rte. i am personally a sa loyalist and i have delt with there customer service and they are top notch i have never delt with dpms.


let us know what you decided.

 

[KC&97TA]

I know very little about the M1A but I know more about the AR platform (not in .308 though).

I'm currently building a DPMS TAC-20 on a Fulton reciver. I found putting the Fulton Armory .308 together even easier than building an AR15, so that was a huge plus for building one. I've wanted an AR in .308 since I first layed eyes on the SR-25, which became the USMC MK-11, I love that rifle... If I really wanted to I could buy a Knights Armament but can't justify $7k on one... nor the mad wife. DPMS has a great reputaition in the AR market, from spending some time in the "AR variants" of AR15..com, the only bad thing anyone can really say is the stock DPMS trigger sucks.

I've never really gotten alot of trigger time behind an M1A, I've shot a few rounds here and there, but never owned my own or had free rain to really use one, I've shot alot from the USMC DMR, an accurized M14, which will be the next rifle after my current FAR/DPMS .308 build. I like the DMR, feels like a real rifle, has a good traditional look to it and is accurate on man sized targets to 800m.

Money wise the AR platform with all brand new parts is an easy way to spread the cost of a rifle; January $435 for the reciever out the door, March $200 for the LPK & Stock, May will be (2) 19 round mags $60 and sometime in June I hope to see a $800 bill on the master card for the upper reciever... I already have a Harris bipod/adapter, and some other misc accesories. If you're trying to build from used parts, good luck the .308 AR market is pretty slim, unlike it's little brother the AR15.

As far as reliablility and accuracy go, I think the AR is the way to go, with a good Stainless Barrel, a clean, quality AR will always perform flawlessly and have decent accuracy for a semi auto, parts are available and there's many choices to choose from. If you want to go from .308 to .243 or .260, all you have to do is change uppers and mags on the DPMS. There are many who have more uppers for thier AR15's than lowers... which leads to wanting to complete those extra uppers with more lowers

My DPMS/Fulton .308 should be complete by mid June at the lattest... after the wife gets a house, I'll be be looking for an M14 or an M1A, hopefully around this time next year.

Which one is truely better... good question? I want them both, I just find the AR platform a bit more friendly after haveing used M16 variants for the past 8-1/2 years and haveing 2 complete AR15's, so it's second nature to me.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

The better platform is my biggest thinker.. I'm not going for better "deal" or price..

I thought this would be an intresting match-up.

 

[tntwatt]

I'm currently in the exact same place. Posted this thread that might be helpful

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=351340

The concensus I've gotten is the DPMS is the only way to go.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

Thanks for the link, tntwatt.

I see that Atlantic Firearms has the LR-308, the 24" model, for $950.

Let us know how your DPMS shoots when ya get it!

 

[velocette]

Great place to be, a choice between two great rifles!

The choice would be dependent upon several questions. 1, are you a wood & steel traditionalist? 2, What is your accuracy level desire? 3, will you want to "accessorize" your new toy? 4, what are you going to use the rifle for?

The box stock, DPMS rifle is extremely accurate, usually sub MOA with decent ammo. Mine is a 5/8 ~ 3/4" group shooter all day long with my handloads. AR type 308s will shoot any commercial ammo safely & most surplus stuff too.
DPMS is also very reliable, no jams, no failures. Accessories for the AR type rifles are widely available and cover every imaginable part or accessory that one could possible put on a rifle. Repair, disassembly, replacement of parts on an AR type is an easy home gunfiddler job. Iron sights are just OK. Magazine selection is very limited (DPMS) but they are very good magazines. Stock trigger is horrible, improvements are excellent and widely available from $50.00 on up. For the reloader, DPMS chambers are quite tight so brass life is pretty good, 4 ~6 reloadings is average for me.

The M1a is fairly accurate from the box and can be made extremely accurate with the work of a skilled gunsmith and your $. Box stock M1a's are very reliable when used with proper ammo. Proper ammo does not include slow burning powders, heavy bullets (over 180 grains) and many commercial loads. (particularly the heavily loaded ammo) Using improper ammo can and will damage the rifle severely.
Accessorys are available but by no means a wide a selection and generally for more $. Repair, disassembly & parts replacement is more difficult, demanding a higher skill level. The stock Iron sights are excellent. Magazine selection is wide with large variations in price. Magazine quality and function varys widely also. Stock triggers are horrible and can be corrected by a good gunsmith, $100.00 and up. For the reloader, M1a chambers are generous so brass life is poor, 2 ~ 3 reloadings is my average.

Beauty of the rifle, as always is in the eye of the beholder, but to many, the wood & steel + traditional appearance of an M1a is a definite plus.

So, after reading the above, you are drawn to the inescapable conclusion that you must buy one each. That's what I had to do. However, if I had to have only one, the AR rifle would be it.

Roger

 

[tntwatt]

So, after reading the above, you are drawn to the inescapable conclusion that you must buy one each.

Now, if I can just convince the wife.

 

[K3]

One thing I note is the 2# difference between the two. An M1A isn't light by any stretch, but that LR is over 11 pounds. A 24" bull barrel is kinda front heavy. My little 16" bull is awkward to carry around. It's a fine shooter, and it is death on bobcats and 'yotes, but I shoot out of a swivel chair in the back of my truck while calling critters in at night. My rifle could weigh 20#, and it wouldn't matter due to how I use it.

The weight and ergonomics are worth considering. Your choice should depend on how you plan to use it. If you plan to use it as a game rifle while carrying it, hiking, etc, I'd definitely go M1A. If you're going to be more stationary, I'd probably lean LR-308.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

Excellent post Velocette.

To answer your questions:
1: Negative. A rifle is a magnificent tool, whether its black, brown, stainless, chrome, or even gold.

2: Accuracy desire is not too strict... From what I hear, the DPMS is under an MOA.. I havent done much shooting for the gain of MOA yet, but I'll set the requirement fairly low for now.

3: Of course! One think I love to do with my stuff, is to accesorise and customise!

4: Target shooting, and when the time is right, Hunting some Alaskan wildlife.

I see the M1A has a very small aftermarket parts lineup, whereas the AR has more aftermarket parts than a '98 Honda Civic!

When this choice comes along, I'm definately going with the LR-308. I like the ability to modify, and even swap calibers if need be. Also, the AR is easy to clean from my experience, I dont know about the M1.

The LR-308 is about $960 online..
The M1A is about $1100 locally..

When the M1A is beat by the AR in many fields, I see no contest.

Thanks for everything guys!

 

[SammyIamToday]

I was in the same spot a couple monthes ago. I went with the DPMS (SASS model actually) and I'm not looking back. Both are great rifles though, so it's really a win win situation.

 

[H2O MAN]

M14 type rifle

I purchased a nice AR-10A4 SPR and an ArmaLite carbine upper to go with it.
I really tried to love the .308 AR platform, but ended up selling it in favor of
the tried and true, battle proven M14 platform. I voted for the M14

 

[GarandOwner]

Proper ammo does not include slow burning powders, heavy bullets (over 180 grains) and many commercial loads. (particularly the heavily loaded ammo)

This is true of the predecessor the Garand, but the M1a has a different gas system and isn't as sensitive to different powders like the Garand is (Also this deals with port pressure, which you cant judge based off of the bullet grain, it deals with the powder, you can shoot heavy bullets with proper powder with no problem)

Using improper ammo can and will damage the rifle severely.

This is true of any rifle


It depends on what you want the rifle for, target shooting or hunting or both? Look at high power competition shooters, most use an M14 or M1A. Also Springfield has a great lifetime warranty. I was kickin around the Idea of an AR or M1A earlier this week, I decided on the M1A. When it comes down to it, it is personal prefference, some like the AR platform better, personally, I prefer wood over plastic

Advantages / Disadvantages?
Reliability / Unreliability?
Optics / Aftermarket Mods?

Both have very few Disadvantages, and both are extremely reliable

As for optics, you cant go wrong with a leupould...if you have the money to spare, BSA makes some good "budget" scopes that would do good on either. As for Aftermarket mods, there is a ton of tacticrap you can put on an AR....but if your looking for a percision gun, you dont want a bunch of junk hangin off of it. If you get the M1A you can use the cash you save from flashlights lasers and can openers to get a quality glass bedding job done, or pillar the receiver. If you aren't a sharpshooter yet, just stick with the basic model, you can slowly tune your rifle down the road when you think you are outshooting the rifle (some people spend lots of money making their rifle the best it can be when they cant even shoot as good as the base rifle could in the first place)

 

[Eagle 1]

My friend's DPMS .308 is way too front-heavy. The M1A is far better balanced. JMHO.

Eagle 1

 

[glockman19]

velocette,
great Analysis

I am a fan of the SA M1A Loaded model and the M1A platrofm, by the time you can out shoot the rifle you'll be ready to have it bedded and it will take tyou that much further.

I am a fan of the AR and the .223/5.56 caliber but I'm not sold on the AR in a .308...yet. I would and willl probably get one just to have one but would trust a bolt action in the same caliber for precision work.

 

[K3]

"The welfare of the community as a whole is more important than the welfare of any individuals in that community."

Indeed. I've carried a .223 with 16" bull barrel on it, and even though it is not heavy overall, it is front heavy. Now, it is capable of amazing accuracy with some of my good handloads (way more capable than I am ), but I just don't like carrying it around. The other night in 'the chair' I called in a kitty cat and got some 'yotes to come in. Shot the cat right in the neck at 75 yards - exactly where I intended to shoot. Couldn't get the 'yotes into the red light. Going to have to change my calling a bit, methinks. Anyhow, from the rest on the chair, it was a perfect rifle.

One of the guys on my deer lease has a 24" in .223. Awesome varmint rifle, but it's not for carrying around for any length of time, and it's really only comfortable to shoot using a rest. Since this is how we varmint hunt, it is a fine rifle.

 

[Avenger29]

The M1A just fits me better- and that's the one I'd have to take. I can close my eyes and throw it up to my shoulder and open my eyes to see straight through the sights.

But the .308 Flattop ARs are the easiest to mount optics on. M1As take a scope mount that is a bit harder to mount. Smith Enterprises builds the best mounts, from what I understand...

 

[Dienekes]

Just be aware that the Smith mount needs a bit of modification to fit the SA M1As right. Mine is headed in for that mod now. If you advise them of that up front they do the minor mod before they ship it.

BTW I like the M1A better than the AR format in .30 cal. I sort of like the carbine 7.62 ARs but they are not light and handy and so do not appeal. The full sized ones, even more so. Would certainly play with one if it were left on my front porch, though.

No free lunch, I guess.

 

[H2O MAN]

Dienekes Just be aware that the Smith mount needs a bit of modification to fit the SA M1As right.

Because some SA receivers are out of spec. The Smith mount fits LRB, USGI and Chinese receivers without issue.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

I have a DPMS LR-.308B and it is pretty sweet...If only I was as accurate as the rifle is, I would be set!

The general consensus I get when I hear people talk about the 2 rifles is the M1A is going to be a little more reliable and the LR-.308 is going to be a little more accurate.

BTW, Although I only have a DPMS right now, I still plan on getting an M1A before this November.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

These 2 rifles seem to be a tight match...

I dont mind the mis-balance of the LR-308... I plan on shooting it mostly from a stationary-rest position.. If I were to get it, I would certainly work a bi-pod on the handguard.

Also, if there is a storage compartment in the buttstock, it would be possible to counter-balance the off-set weight? I dont mind the extra weight, from a stationary it wont be too bad, and I could use the excercise.

 

[BOXRULES]

Got A Lemon !

A Few Years Ago I Purchased A Dpms Lr308-ap4 New In The Box. Got It Home Bought Extra Factory Mags, Sling, Goldmatc Ammo(250 Rounds), And A Bore Snake. I Also Had 400 Rndsof South African And500 Rnds Of Wolf That I Did'nt Find Out They ( Dpms) Prohibited Until I Read The Paperwork, Oh Well. Still Excited About My New Rifle I Headed To The Range To Accurize The Barrel. I Shot One Round Then Cleaned The Bore For 100 Rounds To Accurize, As Dpms Recomended. Couple Of Good Cleanings In Between For Good Measure. Then It Sat In The Safe For Two Months, Until I Took My Father And Uncle( Who Was Visiting From California )to The Range To Have Some Fun. Keep In Mind Only Used Gold Medal Match Ammo So Far, Nothing Prohibited By Dpms.

Got To The Range Loaded Up One Mag Two Less Of Capacity(they Were New Factory Mags After All) Tryed To Chamber A Round, Gun Jammed Like It Was Welded. Took Quite Some Time, With The Ramge Master's Help Just To Get The Mag Out And Round Unchambered. Could'nt Find Obvios Problem, So Loaded 10 Rnds In A 20 Rnd Mag And Tryed Again. Same Snafu, Could'nt Even Seperate The Upper From The Lower. Range Master Finally Got Them Apart, But Had To Snap Tue Rear Pin To Do It. I'd Had Enough.

After A Couple Of Calls To Dpms I Shipped It Off To Them. And After 6 Weeks Of Me Calling To Inquire Then Complain As To What Was Wrong And What Was Taking So Long, And After A Few( Oh It's Right Here In Front Of Me Or It's Next On The List ) The Rifle Just Shows Up Ups. A Day Later I Get E-mail, Rifle Done On The Way. After A Couple More E-mails And Calls, All I Got Was We Polished This And Replaced That. And They Claimed They Ran 20 Through It Without A Hiccup.

To Say The Least I Was Not Pleased With Product Or Service Of Dpms. So After 8 Months In The Safe I Traded It Off For Something Better, And Good Riddance To A Rifle That Could'nt Be Trusted To Work When You Needed It . I Know It Might Have Been Flawless From Then On, But I Would Never Be Able To Trust My Life On It Ever.

Lot's Of People Have Dpms, Hope They Love Them And Have No Problems. They're Not For Me. I'd Rather Have Nothing But A Club !

Box

 

[velocette]

Gosh Box, you sure did get a lemon from DPMS and their response was not up to what we would expect. From my own experience, DPMS must have solved whatever problems they may have had by the time they made my rifle. (about a year ago) 'Cause mine has been flawless and I rarely see any complaints about the new DPMS rifles on this and other rifle boards.
Did you fire your rifle after DPMS sent it back to you? I'm interested in knowing if they corrected the problem when they had it back.

Roger

 

[BOXRULES]

Dpms Lemon

No Sir I Did Not. I Knew I Was'nt Keeping It, And Without A Straight Answer Out Of Dpms On What Was Really Wrong With It, I Had No Desire To Shoot It. By Then I Was'nt As Disgusted With The Rifle, As With The Service That I Recieved From Dpms On A Rifle I Shelled Out Over A Grand On !!! They'll Not Trick Me Twice !

I Am Glad You And Many Others Are Enjoying Your Rifles, And Hopefully Never Get The Service I Had To Put Up With. I've Found A Home With Springfeild Armory. M1a All The Way !!!!!!!!


Box

 

[Vityaz]

Accessorys are available but by no means a wide a selection and generally for more $. Repair, disassembly & parts replacement is more difficult, demanding a higher skill level. The stock Iron sights are excellent. Magazine selection is wide with large variations in price. Magazine quality and function varys widely also. Stock triggers are horrible and can be corrected by a good gunsmith, $100.00 and up. For the reloader, M1a chambers are generous so brass life is poor, 2 ~ 3 reloadings is my average.

I really don't see how the M1A is more difficult to repair, disassemble and replace parts. The only thing that's really troublesome at all is the bolt.

As for magazines, only buy mags that you know are USGI or brand new from CMI. Go to 44mag.com for those.

The stock trigger on an M1A is easily much better than a stock AR trigger, so I don't know how you think they're horrible.

I've also never heard any problems with brass life.