M4 Carbine
- Thread starter Mantis86
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sarduy
Member
i'm still voting for a CMMG
If you are at all interested in building your own M4 style carbine instead of buying one 'off the rack', I'll give you a rundown on mine.
Upper is High Standard with M4 feed ramp cuts, port cover and forward assist from Prairie River, Springs from Brownells.
Bolt is from Colt and the bolt carrier is High Standard, Charging handle is from Prairie River also.
Don't know who Prairie River is?
This is the subcontractor that makes the Mil-Spec small stuff for people such as Colt and FN.
Barrel is Bushmaster 14.5" 4150 steel with permanent Phantom suppressor, 1-7" twist, 5.56 chamber, chrome lined, M4 feed ramped barrel extension.
Front sight tower is not F marked but regulates just fine with the upper.
M4 double shield handguards, I also have a Knights Armament KAC RAS railed handguard and a Midwest Industires two piece non float rail guard too but rarely use them.
Lower is a Double Star, parts are all from my bins and not sure from whom they came.
I originally had an M4 style stock from Double Star on the rifle and have since switched to a Magpul CTR on a mil-spec diameter VLTOR extension tube, the buffer is an H marked Colt and the spring is from Brownells.
The pistol grip in the picture is a straight mil-spec A2 but it was changed out for a Buffer-Tech TangoDown grip and this is being replaced with a Magpul MOE grip.
I have a low profile single point sling mount at the front of the extension tube which is use with a CSM Gear single point sling.
I also use a Vickers two point with this rifle, depending on my mood.
The back up iron sight is a Matech and the scope is a TA101NSN ACOG on a GG&G quick release mount.
Magazines are Brownells Mil-Spec or Magpul P-Mags, again, depending on my mood.
Toatl cost of my build is scary, over two grand with the change outs and optics but the rifle runs flawlessly.
Best accuracy is obtained with Black Hills 77 grain Sierra load when I can get it.
I hope this allows you to consider some other options.
If you only buy once, then buy exactly to your specifications.
Upper is High Standard with M4 feed ramp cuts, port cover and forward assist from Prairie River, Springs from Brownells.
Bolt is from Colt and the bolt carrier is High Standard, Charging handle is from Prairie River also.
Don't know who Prairie River is?
This is the subcontractor that makes the Mil-Spec small stuff for people such as Colt and FN.
Barrel is Bushmaster 14.5" 4150 steel with permanent Phantom suppressor, 1-7" twist, 5.56 chamber, chrome lined, M4 feed ramped barrel extension.
Front sight tower is not F marked but regulates just fine with the upper.
M4 double shield handguards, I also have a Knights Armament KAC RAS railed handguard and a Midwest Industires two piece non float rail guard too but rarely use them.
Lower is a Double Star, parts are all from my bins and not sure from whom they came.
I originally had an M4 style stock from Double Star on the rifle and have since switched to a Magpul CTR on a mil-spec diameter VLTOR extension tube, the buffer is an H marked Colt and the spring is from Brownells.
The pistol grip in the picture is a straight mil-spec A2 but it was changed out for a Buffer-Tech TangoDown grip and this is being replaced with a Magpul MOE grip.
I have a low profile single point sling mount at the front of the extension tube which is use with a CSM Gear single point sling.
I also use a Vickers two point with this rifle, depending on my mood.
The back up iron sight is a Matech and the scope is a TA101NSN ACOG on a GG&G quick release mount.
Magazines are Brownells Mil-Spec or Magpul P-Mags, again, depending on my mood.
Toatl cost of my build is scary, over two grand with the change outs and optics but the rifle runs flawlessly.
Best accuracy is obtained with Black Hills 77 grain Sierra load when I can get it.
I hope this allows you to consider some other options.
If you only buy once, then buy exactly to your specifications.
Timradcliffe345
member
I have plenty of experience with the AR15 weapons system and I believe in buying quality the first time. The S&W is a good buy if you replace the BCG.
Out of the box with no mods the Colt, Noveske and LMT are the best bar none.
Ten years ago the lineup was Bushmaster, Armalite, and Colt.
I know folks who work for Lewis Machine and Tool and they tell me they subcontract parts just like everyone else.
Don't know a darned thing about Noveske, haven't yet seen or held one.
I guess everything changes with the seasons,,,,,,,,
I know folks who work for Lewis Machine and Tool and they tell me they subcontract parts just like everyone else.
Don't know a darned thing about Noveske, haven't yet seen or held one.
I guess everything changes with the seasons,,,,,,,,
Make It In Mass
Member
S&w M&p 15ft
This S&W M&P 15FT is my first AR, and it has run like a champ from day one with all types of ammunition. Flat top, fixed stock, 16 inch barrel and Troy sights / forward rail make a good all around carbine.
This S&W M&P 15FT is my first AR, and it has run like a champ from day one with all types of ammunition. Flat top, fixed stock, 16 inch barrel and Troy sights / forward rail make a good all around carbine.
RockyMtnTactical
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That's not what you originally said, you said they were the only decent ones. I disagree. There are plenty of "decent" ones. Those 3 (among a few others) are what I would consider various degrees of exceptional.
There are also plenty of lousy ones too. However, I guess it's somewhat subjective... but I wouldn't classify AR15's as "decent" and "not decent". More like, "excellent", "serviceable/easily upgraded", and "lousy".
To even take it a step further, you can get a good Olympic and a bad Colt. It's the exception, but it happens...
Timradcliffe345
member
Out of the box, they are the only decent ones. All the other ones need mods to make them reliable. I guess we define 'decent' differently. In any case, going with the top three the OP can't go wrong.
sarduy
Member
double post
sarduy
Member
ohh.. so my CMMG M4 need mods to make it reliable?
ok, i will do the "mods" as soon as it start to fail me...NO WAIT...i think it came modded from the factory because my Cmmg is 100% Reliable!
edit: BTW what mods are those?
gcrookston
member
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I have found the CMMG to be great, and an excellent all-round rifle. The YHM is also an excellent find. They are both exceptional rifles in my book, accurate and reliable.
YHM build (YHM, Spike's, DPMS, CMMG, GG&G, Vltor):
CMMG:
And I don't have exactly a "limited experience" with ARs. I've owned them for over 30 years... Starting with an SP1, I've owned SPII, Armalite, Colt, Bushmaster, the two mentioned above, a few more Colts, a couple more bushmasters, an Olympic and am currently more into assembling them
YHM build (YHM, Spike's, DPMS, CMMG, GG&G, Vltor):
CMMG:
And I don't have exactly a "limited experience" with ARs. I've owned them for over 30 years... Starting with an SP1, I've owned SPII, Armalite, Colt, Bushmaster, the two mentioned above, a few more Colts, a couple more bushmasters, an Olympic and am currently more into assembling them
RockyMtnTactical
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That's not really true. You cannot speak in such absolute terms in this regard. It doesn't work. Otherwise, there is no way to explain why an Oly could out perform a Colt (like I said, exception, not the rule, but also not unheard of and NOT the only example).
Many AR15's are decent out of the box and very reliable (and serviceable), even outside of "your top 3".
I respect the quality that the best manufacturers put into their AR15's, but I also realize that many other AR15 manufacturers make "decent" AR15's that are capable of good reliability.
I would likely do a series of personal upgrades on many of these rifles out of the box too, but that would also include Colt, LMT, Noveske...
Timradcliffe345
member
RockyMtnTactical: Any informed operator going in harms way would go with one of the three top choices. To do otherwise would be foolish. The Oly might do alright for a day at the range, however, nobody who intends to put their carbine through hard use would pick te Oly.
I can absolutely speak in absolute terms and say that 99.9 out of a hunderd times the Colt will outdo the other lesser options out there. If someone has a (fill in the blank with your AR) and it works for them - Great! Myself and others choose to go with something that is very likely to run when the running gets tough. Goodnight and God bless.
I can absolutely speak in absolute terms and say that 99.9 out of a hunderd times the Colt will outdo the other lesser options out there. If someone has a (fill in the blank with your AR) and it works for them - Great! Myself and others choose to go with something that is very likely to run when the running gets tough. Goodnight and God bless.
TexKettering
Member
I really hope this post is a joke, because it's far far far from the truth.
:rollseyes:
Edit: You wouldn't happen to post over at ar15.com, wouldya?
RockyMtnTactical
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I know plenty of LE officers, operators, both current and former who would take issue with that.
This statement is a huge detriment to your credibility. It is flat out wrong. Even practically all of the most educated devout fanboys of "your top 3" would agree with me on that.
I don't care for Oly at all. They are one of the last AR15 brands I would choose from. However, to say that any single one of your top 3 will outperform any given Oly 99.9% of the time is just flat out silly, and frankly, WRONG.
An Oly outperforming a Colt may be the exception, but not 999 times out of 1000 exception.
Timradcliffe345
member
Tell you what, go ahead and pick your platform. You have obviously made up your mind. I hope it serves you well. Contrary to you I want every edge I can get. Each to his own my friend. I love this free country. Have a good night and stay safe. God Bless.
Timradcliffe345
member
No its not a joke. For out of the box reliabilty it is wise to go with one of the top three on the chart. Good night and God bless.
TexKettering
Member
Why dodge the questions?
No offense, but there just seems to be a bit of "internet operator" attitude going on in your posts.
Proper training and and practice is what is going to give you a bigger edge you can get, not a rifle with a particular name stamped on the side.
No offense, but there just seems to be a bit of "internet operator" attitude going on in your posts.
Proper training and and practice is what is going to give you a bigger edge you can get, not a rifle with a particular name stamped on the side.
Timradcliffe345
member
What is your question?
Proper training and practice are the most important factors. We are not debating this.
It seems you want to argue for the point of argueing. Unless you have something to contribute, stay out of the discussion.
TexKettering
Member
I disagree with your sentiment that if you don't get Colt, Noveske, or LMT that you might as well not get any AR. That's just silly sack-riding of those brands.
For a new AR shooter that wants to shoot from a bench, he really does not need to spend $2k on a name, unless he wants to brag about it on the internet.
For a new AR shooter that wants to shoot from a bench, he really does not need to spend $2k on a name, unless he wants to brag about it on the internet.
RockyMtnTactical
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I'm not saying that Colt, LMT, etc... are not very good, they are. However, I am just saying that you are greatly exaggerating their superiority. Yes, they are usually better than most. However, it's not super rare to get a "decent" AR15 from some other manufacturer other than those 3.
Why does this topic always turn into this?
(actually I know why, you generally have people that know little to nothing about the topic at hand but want to defend their purchase based on their sample size of 1. this goes for both sides)
Those manufacturers that most closely follow the TDP produce carbines that are more likely to function, and function reliably over time, than those produced by companies that have no standard.
If one is purchasing for defensive, or offensive, use or just prefers to have the peace of mind that comes from having a quality product, they would do well to purchase from those manufacturers that most closely follow the TDP.
If you want a play toy, or if you are more concerned with cost and less concerned with quality/reliability, then by all means buy from a company with no standard.
I would (perhaps not so) humbly suggest that people read the description that goes with The Chart and decide for themselves what kind of a carbine they want/need/can afford. As long as someone makes an informed decision and understands the compromises they make in their purchases and why, nobody else should care what they do.
(actually I know why, you generally have people that know little to nothing about the topic at hand but want to defend their purchase based on their sample size of 1. this goes for both sides)
Those manufacturers that most closely follow the TDP produce carbines that are more likely to function, and function reliably over time, than those produced by companies that have no standard.
If one is purchasing for defensive, or offensive, use or just prefers to have the peace of mind that comes from having a quality product, they would do well to purchase from those manufacturers that most closely follow the TDP.
If you want a play toy, or if you are more concerned with cost and less concerned with quality/reliability, then by all means buy from a company with no standard.
I would (perhaps not so) humbly suggest that people read the description that goes with The Chart and decide for themselves what kind of a carbine they want/need/can afford. As long as someone makes an informed decision and understands the compromises they make in their purchases and why, nobody else should care what they do.
Spend some time on www.ar15.com---good advice
Definitely get a flat top if you are going to put an optic on the rifle.
Definitely get a flat top if you are going to put an optic on the rifle.
Yeah I guess my old Bushmaster that I bought in 1990 or 1991 and have fired thousands and thousands of rounds through, rebarrelled three times and replaced the bolt and carrier due to wear, not breakage, is absolute junk.
It doesn't choke, not even on Wolf and doesn't even have M4 feed ramps or an F marked front sight,,,,,,,,,,,,
My M4 look a like carbine only has about three thousand rounds through it.
It hasn't choked or broke anything either,,,,,,,,
It doesn't choke, not even on Wolf and doesn't even have M4 feed ramps or an F marked front sight,,,,,,,,,,,,
My M4 look a like carbine only has about three thousand rounds through it.
It hasn't choked or broke anything either,,,,,,,,
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