M9 and US Service Pistols
- Thread starter Ash
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USAF_Vet
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Like pretty much everyone else in the military since the 80's, I too carried the M9. Is it a good gun, heck yeah. Is it the best gun, (best being subjective) not by a long shot. But, when you drill and train with a Beretta M9 day in and day out, muscle memory means a lot when it comes to choosing a personal firearm. I like the Beretta 92FS/ M9, it fits my hand well. I prefer a full size gun, but it fits the bill nicely. Uncle Sam paid for my range time and practice ammo, so what's not to like?
To each their own. Good thing about living in this country is that I can still buy whatever I want, whenever I want, and the only ones I have to report to are my wife and my maker.... in that order.
As a lefty, I love the position of the safety.
To each their own. Good thing about living in this country is that I can still buy whatever I want, whenever I want, and the only ones I have to report to are my wife and my maker.... in that order.
As a lefty, I love the position of the safety.
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Ash
Member
As I said, my friend and I differ. But he still prefers the Beretta. It may be that he prefers it because he was trained with it, but if it had been a problem-child type of pistol, I imagine he would use something else.
I have some experience with the M9 I shot an Arabian gazelle with hardball in 2003 in order to clear the animals off the runway in Iraq. The animal ran some distance before expiring. I turned the M9 in and got an Airforce Vietnam era M16 to kill the critters.IF YOU HAVE TO USE HARDBALL THEN GO 45cal period.If you don't then there are better choices such as the Glock or Kahr
jaysouth
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I remember reading a couple of years ago about a fisherman in Alaska shooting and killing a 300 pound plus grizzly sow with one shot of 9mm fmj from a RUGER! Of all things! Maybe a beretta 9 would have only wounded it.
Go figger!
Go figger!
Too_Pure
Member
I don't understand. Are you suggesting that because a 9mm wouldn't drop medium game that the same round shot from another pistol would? I wouldn't expect 9mm to drop any game animal. Nor would I expect .45 to. I'm no expert, but I'm skeptical.
I thought there was a reason most hunting is done with long guns, and only certain hand gun calibers.
**edit**
Looked up Arabian Gazelle to see how big they get and evidently they are extinct?
Nice going USMC8541! (-;
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SnowBlaZeR2
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jaysouth
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isc,
You are about to start a flame war from the chest thumpers who have seen too many war movies.
In VietNam, handguns were not carried in the bush for more than a couple of weeks. When you realized how heavy the .45 and its accessories were, how much precious time it took to keep rustfree, and how useless it was, you begged the first sergeant to take it off your records and send it to the rear.
If you were in the rear and scored a .38 or captured Tok, that was cool. If you had to be armed but did not need a serous arm, a 1911 was OK. Going to the village to visit the ladies comes to mind.
You are about to start a flame war from the chest thumpers who have seen too many war movies.
In VietNam, handguns were not carried in the bush for more than a couple of weeks. When you realized how heavy the .45 and its accessories were, how much precious time it took to keep rustfree, and how useless it was, you begged the first sergeant to take it off your records and send it to the rear.
If you were in the rear and scored a .38 or captured Tok, that was cool. If you had to be armed but did not need a serous arm, a 1911 was OK. Going to the village to visit the ladies comes to mind.
SnowBlaZeR2
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Never mind.
No more circles for this guy.
No more circles for this guy.
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SnowBlaZeR2 said:
I'm 14 year Infantry veteran of the US army and just got home from my most recent deployment to Iraq. The only soldiers using pistols over there were REMFs escorting buses in Kuwait. I've taught 11B MOS-T, WLC, & 11B BNCOC. None of those courses even include handguns in the POI/TSPs.
Those are my qualifications to show that I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. I'd love to see yours.
SnowBlaZeR2
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I'm not getting into a pissing match over who's done more. If you feel the need, in order for me to give my opinion, send a PM and I'll be happy to give you my "qualifications".
Going back to the issue, I'd like to know where you came up with this:
"They're rarely issued to a soldier that actually sees the enemy. and even more rarely pulled from its holster, much less used in combat."
If you mean soldier strictly as it relates to the Army, you may be correct. Other than that, I'd disagree.
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What in the world would a soldier mean except as how it relates to the army? A sailor, an airman, a coastie, a marine? None of those individuals is a soldier. A marine is closest, but they don't get issued pistols often either from what I've heard from the marines I've met.
I based that statement on the firsthand observations of a career soldier. I did see handguns issued to alot of sailors on ships at port, but all the sailors and airmen that I saw while I was deployed carried rifles.
Then there are also MPs, but no one but another MP thinks that they are actually combat arms. The only time I saw an MP doing anything other than garrison duties, guarding unarmed prisoners, or hassling grunts they actually had rifles.
Pistols aren't used in combat except in a few very specialized circumstances. In 2003 illegal captured handguns were very common, but even then they weren't used for much besides show and tell and plinking. Things have tightened up so much that you just don't see war trophies in a line unit anymore.
One caveat, Haj does respect a handgun more than a rifle. Of course that's mostly because they associate handguns with executions and have become desensitized to rifles. That's a psychological thing, not anything based on the realities of modern warfare.
I based that statement on the firsthand observations of a career soldier. I did see handguns issued to alot of sailors on ships at port, but all the sailors and airmen that I saw while I was deployed carried rifles.
Then there are also MPs, but no one but another MP thinks that they are actually combat arms. The only time I saw an MP doing anything other than garrison duties, guarding unarmed prisoners, or hassling grunts they actually had rifles.
Pistols aren't used in combat except in a few very specialized circumstances. In 2003 illegal captured handguns were very common, but even then they weren't used for much besides show and tell and plinking. Things have tightened up so much that you just don't see war trophies in a line unit anymore.
One caveat, Haj does respect a handgun more than a rifle. Of course that's mostly because they associate handguns with executions and have become desensitized to rifles. That's a psychological thing, not anything based on the realities of modern warfare.
SnowBlaZeR2
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It's Marine, capitalized.
I'm a career Marine, and I've been issued and used a pistol on every one of my deployments. So has every one of my teammates.
Your last paragraph is part of the point I wanted to make. When you are patrolling and dealing with curious or sometimes aggressive locals, a pistol shows authority and commands respect and compliance from those people. I'll take a reduction in the need to fire my weapon any day. When you need information from someone they are more likely to give it out when they respect your position. A pistol shows that, much the same way as us telling them we are officers when dealing with them.
As far as the realities of modern warfare? I don't know your level of experience with "warfare" as opposed to the training qualifications you listed. As I said before, I was issued a pistol and I used it often while deployed. That's my experience, not I saw this guy with a pistol or those guys didn't have one. The guys that actually see the enemy every day, are almost always issued a pistol, to be quite honest.
I think I'm about done with this one. Enjoy your night and enjoy disagreeing with me.
There is something truely comforting about having a pistol while walking to the porta john,,,
Have one of your teammates lose their long gun to damage & you will start to like having that handgun along
Saying handguns are not important in combat tells me nobody was ever shooting at you.
EVERY weapon is important.
Have one of your teammates lose their long gun to damage & you will start to like having that handgun along
Saying handguns are not important in combat tells me nobody was ever shooting at you.
EVERY weapon is important.
OK, you got me there, I would rather have a M9 than a M4 when I go to the latrine. So yes, a pistol is useful for tactical defecation.
My last tour I didn't get shot at even once, as long as rockets and IEDs don't count as getting shot at. Iraq was definitely nicer in 2010 than it was in 2003.
I mentioned the courses I taught in the schoolhouse to make the point that handguns are considered so unimportant by the army that they aren't even covered in any of the NCO development courses. 11B BNCOC even covers demo, which is considered more important than handguns to the infantry mission.
I'll admit that I have the bias of thinking that the mission of combat arms MOSs are the heart and soul of what a soldier is supposed to be and that I discount the expertise of a water purification unit compared to that of a unit of grunts. That's probably not completely fair considering the asymmetric nature of our current wars, but the truth is that all MOSs other than combat arms train to do their primary job first and dealing with the enemy is just an impediment to them performing their real job.
Handguns are typically only issued to soldiers whose job isn't to engage the enemy in direct combat (medics, higher ranked officers/NCOs) or whose job is to operate another larger weapon (machine gunners, etc). In our battalion our medics and officers other than the CO, XO, and 1SG all carried M4s. Other than a couple guys in SF, I never met a soldier that fired a pistol at the enemy.
BTW, I've never been issued a pistol, and only earned an expert pistol badge because I train on my own.
Going back to the OP, I like the Beretta too, even though it is too big for a 9mm. I find it to be accurate and reliable and prefer it to most of my other centerfire pistols for casual plinking.
My last tour I didn't get shot at even once, as long as rockets and IEDs don't count as getting shot at. Iraq was definitely nicer in 2010 than it was in 2003.
I mentioned the courses I taught in the schoolhouse to make the point that handguns are considered so unimportant by the army that they aren't even covered in any of the NCO development courses. 11B BNCOC even covers demo, which is considered more important than handguns to the infantry mission.
I'll admit that I have the bias of thinking that the mission of combat arms MOSs are the heart and soul of what a soldier is supposed to be and that I discount the expertise of a water purification unit compared to that of a unit of grunts. That's probably not completely fair considering the asymmetric nature of our current wars, but the truth is that all MOSs other than combat arms train to do their primary job first and dealing with the enemy is just an impediment to them performing their real job.
Handguns are typically only issued to soldiers whose job isn't to engage the enemy in direct combat (medics, higher ranked officers/NCOs) or whose job is to operate another larger weapon (machine gunners, etc). In our battalion our medics and officers other than the CO, XO, and 1SG all carried M4s. Other than a couple guys in SF, I never met a soldier that fired a pistol at the enemy.
BTW, I've never been issued a pistol, and only earned an expert pistol badge because I train on my own.
Going back to the OP, I like the Beretta too, even though it is too big for a 9mm. I find it to be accurate and reliable and prefer it to most of my other centerfire pistols for casual plinking.
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bigfatdave
Member
I'll be looking for a chance to insert that phrase into a conversation all day now.
jeff-10
Member
Just bought a new Model 92 Compact. Beautiful pistol. Also it fits my hands very well and I have tiny hands. Honestly they are a pretty good value now for a non polymer pistol.
tahunua001
Member
I fully agree with you, in the navy we use the M9 a lot for security personnel but mostly that 's just for guys who are too crappy with a rifle to qualify, navy pistol quals are relatively easy(by my standards anyway) to pass. but anytime we get sent IA to supplement the guys on the ground they almost always get M4s and I've never met an IA sailor yet who was given the M9
bruzer
Member
Beretta has a way of making their slide action silky smooth.
"My tactical defecation will have to wait until the Wife exits the bathroom".
Mike
"My tactical defecation will have to wait until the Wife exits the bathroom".
Mike
USAF_Vet
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As USAF Security Forces, I was issued an M9 for garrison duty, as well as deployments and out side the wire missions. Last deployment to Iraq ('05) was as an ILO with the Army running convoys. Some, not all, had M9s as well. And yes, they even saw use in combat when the M4 failed. Not the ideal weapon, but it works in a pinch and is much better than a few colorful words at stopping the enemy.
SnowBlaZeR2
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Doc was the only sailor that left the wire with us anyways. Guess what he had strapped to his thigh?
Lots of "I saw this soldier doing that, or that sailor doing this".
Rob96
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USAF Vet, do guys carrying the M240 or such carry a sidearm? When I was an SP it was not common practice and was actually something I had to fight for.
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