Pistol suggestions for a friend

[Tony k]

I took a friend to the range on Sunday. Guy is a fellow vet with an interesting service history (a cook attached to an SF or Ranger unit), and once he shook the rust off, demonstrated some impressive skills with an AR. I mention this to say he has experience with firearms.

But with pistols, he was terrible. Couldn't hit an 8" plate at 7 yards. That was with a Glock, S&W M&P, and a Kahr.

Then I had him shoot a 1911 and he did much better. I believe it had everything to do with the single action trigger. He loved shooting it and kept raving about how much he loved it. Mind you it's a high mileage Taurus PT1911, so nothing fancy at all. After a while though, he decided that eight rounds isn't enough.

TLDR: a friend wants a pistol. He likes 1911s because of the trigger, but wants a higher capacity. Should I point him in the direction of SA/DA offerings such as an M9 variant, or a CZ/ CZ clone? I'm guessing his budget is low due to family obligations. I'm guessing $500 would be a stretch for him right now.

Suggestions? I'm a striker fired, DAO, tipperware pistol guy. I don't have a lot of knowledge in the SA, and SA/DA marketplace, but I'd like to give this guy some ideas.

 

[JTQ]

... SA/DA

They are DA/SA guns. They start with the first shot in double action (DA), and subsequent shots are single action (SA). They don't start in SA and subsequently go to DA.

The Beretta DA/SA guns are getting a lot of attention due to work from Wilson Combat and Ernest Langdon at Langdon Tactical. The CZ DA/SA guns also get a lot of attention due to competitors having great success with them at high levels of completion.

The Wilson and Langdon Tactical Beretta's will be more expensive than a polymer/striker gun (probably double), but if that's what he prefers they have value. They are either customized or custom spec'd, so they are more expensive than the factory standard models.

Beretta http://www.beretta.com/en-us/pistol...79.464064535.1554168655-1038987833.1547839349

Wilson Combat https://www.wilsoncombat.com

Langdon Tactical https://www.langdontactical.com

CZ USA https://cz-usa.com/product-category/handguns/

CZ Custom https://czcustom.com

 

[Jim Watson]

I hesitate to recommend a second tier gun, but a guy here has shot a whale of a lot out of a Taurus PT92 Beretta clone. And it has a proper thumb safety, unlike the GI Beretta.

 

[Tony k]

They are DA/SA guns. They start with the first shot in double action (DA), and subsequent shots are single action (SA). They don't start in SA and subsequently go to DA.

The Beretta DA/SA guns are getting a lot of attention due to work from Wilson Combat and Ernest Langdon at Langdon Tactical. The CZ DA/SA guns also get a lot of attention due to competitors having great success with them at high levels of completion.

The Wilson and Langdon Tactical Beretta's will be more expensive than a polymer/striker gun (probably double), but if that's what he prefers they have value. They are either customized or custom spec'd, so they are more expensive than the factory standard models.

Beretta http://www.beretta.com/en-us/pistol...79.464064535.1554168655-1038987833.1547839349

Wilson Combat https://www.wilsoncombat.com

Langdon Tactical https://www.langdontactical.com

CZ USA https://cz-usa.com/product-category/handguns/

CZ Custom https://czcustom.com

Oops. I know how they operate, just used incorrect verbage. Shows how uninitated I am in this realm.

 

[Tony k]

I hesitate to recommend a second tier gun, but a guy here has shot a whale of a lot out of a Taurus PT92 Beretta clone. And it has a proper thumb safety, unlike the GI Beretta.

If it's as rugged, reliable, and feature packed as my Taurus PT1911, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest one. Plus, aren't they built on tooling they bought from Beretta? I vaguely remember something along those lines.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Canik. Or one of the CZ P-07 variants.

 

[340PD]

I took a friend to the range on Sunday. Guy is a fellow vet with an interesting service history (a cook attached to an SF or Ranger unit), and once he shook the rust off, demonstrated some impressive skills with an AR. I mention this to say he has experience with firearms.

But with pistols, he was terrible. Couldn't hit an 8" plate at 7 yards. That was with a Glock, S&W M&P, and a Kahr.

Then I had him shoot a 1911 and he did much better. I believe it had everything to do with the single action trigger. He loved shooting it and kept raving about how much he loved it. Mind you it's a high mileage Taurus PT1911, so nothing fancy at all. After a while though, he decided that eight rounds isn't enough.

TLDR: a friend wants a pistol. He likes 1911s because of the trigger, but wants a higher capacity. Should I point him in the direction of SA/DA offerings such as an M9 variant, or a CZ/ CZ clone? I'm guessing his budget is low due to family obligations. I'm guessing $500 would be a stretch for him right now.

Suggestions? I'm a striker fired, DAO, tipperware pistol guy. I don't have a lot of knowledge in the SA, and SA/DA marketplace, but I'd like to give this guy some ideas.

Before I would recommend a handgun for your friend, I would have him/her invest in a basic handgun course and learn to shoot a variety of handguns before a selection is made. If at 7 yards, hitting a paper plate is a problem, it's not the gun that needs looking into.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'd look into a CZ or a Sig. If he's not picky about how pretty the gun is, there are some police trade in Sigs out there which aren't too expensive (just make sure it's DA/SA, not a DAO or DAK type trigger). Canik used to have a CZ 75 clone which was a little rough around the edges but was an affordable and serviceable option. I'm not sure if they're still available though.

I would second the recommendation that he get training. It's fine to prefer SA triggers, but if he's having issues even hitting the target with striker fired pistols at 7 yards, that points to a deeper issue than just trigger preference.

 

[Buzznrose]

Look at a Walther PPQ or Springfield XDm if you want a different bore angle.

Also a CZ P09 is a G17 size gun that you can make a very nice shooter.

But I’m a Glock guy and believe anyone can learn to shoot them well. And they are by far, at least for me, the most affordable and easiest to work on and maintain...

 

[C0untZer0]

I'd suggest he rent some. You never know, he might stumble on a design he really likes and then he'll learn to shoot it well.

On the other hand, if he really is only going to be happy with an single-action trigger, the CZs can be carried cocked and locked.

The Turkish copies of the CZ are very cheap - you can pick up a SAR CZ copy for about $260.00 - shipped.

The trigger on my SAR B6P is not great but it's not bad. The SA trigger on the SAR B6P is much better than the triger on my Taurus Millennium G2 PT111.

 

[needmorecowbell]

I wouldn’t pick a gun based off one outing where someone shot better with what they were used to. I started off shooting 1911’s and CZ’s better than striker fired but over time and due to capacity/concealability concerns have bought more striker fired (XD mod2) and shoot those just as good if not better. I agree with what most are saying. Try as many as can.

 

[Zerodefect]

Dan Wesson, Guncrafter, Les Baer.

Or just put some better sights on the Glock.

 

[Nuclear]

I'd go with a CZ or a clone. Really they are SA with a second strike DA capability. Generally OK to good triggers, ergonomic and higher capacity than a 1911.

 

[Tony k]

I agree with the sentiment that he needs more trigger time with the DAO/ striker fired pistols. If he still wants SA, he'll at least have a broader perspective and a better sense of what will work for him.

Guess I will just have to keep taking him shooting with me. Ranges with gun rentals are about 3hours drive from here.

 

[WrongHanded]

Sig does have a few P series SAO pistols with a manual safety. I'm pretty sure there's a P226 version in 9mm if 8 rounds are not enough for him.

But I agree, more trigger time on a variety of guns first.

 

[Tallball]

Double-stack 1911. Problem solved.

RIA 1911 40 caliber double stack

• Tallball
• Jul 7, 2018

 

[JTQ]

Suggestions? I'm a striker fired, DAO, tipperware pistol guy.

...more trigger time with the DAO/ striker fired pistols

This got mentioned a couple of times, but for clarity, if your experience is with striker fired guns, they aren't DAO. A double action only (DAO) would be different. Striker fired guns are much closer related to single action (SA) autos.

Referencing the Glock, Ernest Langdon beginning at the 2:15 mark.

 

[MikeInOr]

I have owned a Beretta 92 INOX for 25+ years. It was the second handgun I purchased. It is a EXCELLENT pistol.... but it is NOT a 1911! I shoot my 1911's better than I shoot my Beretta even though I have much more trigger time with my Beretta. I do not like my CZ 75D compact as much as I like my Beretta... probably because of the thousands of rounds I have shot through the Beretta.

If he wants a 1911... he should get a 1911. Like Tallball said above look at a double stack 1911... the RIA's seem a very good value for their price. Personally I would like to find a RIA double stack 9mm 1911 with the .22tcm barrel.... to complement my 1911's in .45.

What does he want the gun for? Will it be a range gun? A home protection gun? A carry gun? A couple weekends ago I took an inexperienced co-worker to the range... taught him the basics of safety, the basics of how a pistol and revolver functions, the difference between SA, DAO and SA/DA. He fell in love with my Browning 1911-380... he purchased a 3.3 XD Mod 2 in 45 acp because he shot it well and it served his purpose much better than the 1911-380. He couldn't shoot my Beretta 92 worth a darn. It was too big of a grip for him and the Hogue finger groove grips I have on it makes it even bigger... perfect for me... he could not hang onto it.