Ma Deuce vs. Russian heavies

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Beagle-zebub

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From what I read, Russian heavy machine guns (I'm thinking specifically of the Kord, though not exclusively) are some 10kgs lighter than the M2, and have quick-change barrels; according to some, the Kord even has better accuracy and less recoil. (I'm skeptical, but who knows....) Isn't Ma Deuce getting a little old?
 
I'd just like to add that Ma Decue and the Russian Heavies would be a terrific name for a band.
 
I've heard from numorous people that the old russian .50's are more powerful aswell.

As far the the ole ma deuce goes, having had to take one apart and put it back together in under 3 minutes, I hope we get something simpler.
 
keep in mind. something may be lighter, but taht also means it may not be as strong.

something may be more powerfull, but at what cost? mechanical life? ammo cost?

it may have quick change barrels, but... well i cant think of a flaw with that. but my point is, "best" by special features may not be best for the needed job. ( think AK47, basic to western guns, but GREAT at what it does)
 
Even though fixed headspace and timing would be great, the M2 is really close to perfect...the reason it's still around is not beacuse we're cheap. It's because there's nothing better and what we have is perhaps the most reliable weapon in our inventory. It hits hard and always goes bang. What else do you need?
 
Russian heavy machine guns come in two calibres. 12.5mm and 14.5mm. The former for light vehicles/infantry, the latter anti-air, as I recall. Neither have seen as much varied use as a .50 Browning.
"...Isn't Ma Deuce getting a little old?..." Rule Number One. If it works, don't fix it.
 
+1 on what spaceCADETzoom said...I loved the chance to let lose the TC's gun at the range. :) It was almost as much fun as running tank table 12. :p



D
 
If it aint broke...dont fix it.

The M2 is the only weapon out there that has never had a revision made to it since it began serving in the early 20s (I think) If you look at the M16A1 rifle, (we are now up to A3s) it stands for Model 16 Revision 1 the A number designates that there has been that number of significant improvements made to the weapon. 80 plus years of service and no improvements have been made... you dont improve on perfection.

Fun is being the non-trigger man in a two man fire improvised manuever to engage aircraft :eek:
 
Actually, we're up to the M16A4 now, I believe.

Mike

PS And, I promise, if I ever start a rock and roll band, the name will be "Ma Deuce and the Russian Heavies". :D
 
AFAIK, the Russian 12.7mm HMGs are currently used primarily as the TC's weapon on tanks.

The 14.5mm does have AA uses-there are quite a few quad 14.5s sitting in unit captured equipment displays on Army posts around the country, souveniers of the First Gulf War.

It is also the primary weapon on the Soviet/Russian BRDM series recon vehicles and the BTR-60, -70, and -80 APCs.

As far as their performance, ease of use, and durability, I really can't say.
 
Close to perfect? Maybe if you consider difficult to operate, slow to change the barrels, and grossly overweight to be near perfect...
Click to expand...
Difficult to operate? For its caliber and reliablity, Show me something that's less so.

No quick change barrels? It's a .50, not a SAW. WHile I have been witness to one visibly drooping ridiculously hot barrel, such was the case of someone doing wrong.

Grossly overweight? Are you shouldering it or something? The only time you're carrying it is when you're mounting it onto something... There are heavier things out there we can bitch about on a tank.

Guess I;m just looking at it from another perspective...those gripes dont seem relevant to me or in my mind, anyone else who uses them. I voiced my one gripe...screwing around with the headspace/timing. Despite that lil thing, I just dont see anything better in the near future. Save some newfangled raygun that magically kills at ranges beyond 2km instantaneaously with no upkeep or ammo considerations...and even then...

IN the few short moments between
"CALIBER 50!" and "TC COMPLETE!"...
...there are really very few things outside of actual tanks that are left in front of an M2HB
 
It might be able to be improved some from the current design (slight changes), but to replace it would be a true shame.
 
Tattooed Bard said:
The M2 is the only weapon out there that has never had a revision made to it since it began serving in the early 20s (I think) If you look at the M16A1 rifle, (we are now up to A3s) it stands for Model 16 Revision 1 the A number designates that there has been that number of significant improvements made to the weapon. 80 plus years of service and no improvements have been made... you dont improve on perfection.
Click to expand...

That is not exactly true. The current Ma Deuce is the M2HB, not the M2. The HB is to indicate that it has a heavy barrel. The original M2 did not have the heavy barrel and was subsequently changed in order to increase the rate of fire.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg04-e.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_deuce
 
A little simplifying and making it easier to strip and fix would really be nice. I only got to fire one once however so hardly count as an authoritive figure on the M2 in combat.

Of course nothing would be more fun than one of these. Wouldn't want to pay the cost to feed it however.

Zpu4_09.jpg

Russian ZPU 14.5mm
 
if you ever shot one you wouldn't asking these questions:)
the ol M-2 kicks ass.
pete
 
I would never want to be on the receiving end of "Ma Deuce" she is a terrible thing indeed. Properly trained a soldier can definitely cover some serious ground with accurate, devastating, lethal and continous fire . 1800+ meters is and it's your territory. It's no wonder the M2 has been around 70 some odd plus years. Proven in battle. I have won competitions with Ma Deuce and know what I have done with her but I haven't come anywhere close to what she is capable of.
 
There have been some design improvements to the M2HB design during it's time in service. The problem is that the improvements are only generally incorporated when new guns are purchased and the majority of the guns in service are older guns dating back to WWII.
 
the ma deuce. why change it if it still works good? big, ugly, destructive, and dependable. what is there to complain about when you see a "thermal mist" through thermal sights when blasting bad guys in the desert??? my vote, don't change a thing. :eek:
 
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