MA Troopers get dud Sigs

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http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=170847


Gun deal misfire$: Recalled pistols waste tax dollars
By Dave Wedge
Boston Herald Chief Enterprise Reporter
Thursday, December 7, 2006 - Updated: 12:52 AM EST

Faulty high-tech guns sold to state police in a deal brokered by a retired trooper-turned-salesman jammed during tests and were yanked off the streets, resulting in hefty training costs and leaving cops dangerously vulnerable.
The department began arming troopers with the .40-caliber Sig Sauer double-action Kellerman pistols Nov. 13 and spent thousands in taxpayer dollars sending cops to the New Braintree gun range for daylong training sessions on the new weapons.
But after 152 troopers were already on the streets with the new guns, officials learned four were defective and jammed during firing.


The defect left an undetermined number of troopers possibly defenseless on the job before the weapons were recalled. Some officers were even told to stay home from work because of the risk, sources told the Herald.
“They were having some serious malfunctions,” one trooper said. “Some guys couldn’t report to work until they went to the range to get their old gun back.”
The guns were summarily recalled, but not without damage to taxpayers. Not only did the department pay to train troopers on the new guns, it also shelled out overtime for troopers to be retrained on their old guns, as required by contract.
One trooper who received a new gun said his “fired flawlessly,” but he was still called at home at night and told to immediately report to the gun range the following morning to get back his old sidearm.
“It was discovered early and they put the brakes on it,” the trooper said of the flap. “They took action right away and rectified it.”
According to sources, the lucrative deal for the new guns was brokered by Nicholas Marcotte, a retired trooper who is now the Northeast regional sales manager for Exeter, N.H.-based gun maker Sigarms Inc. A company spokesman declined comment.
The guns cost $562 each but the department was reimbursed $462 for each of 90 of the old pistols as a trade-in. A total cost of $43,875 for the 152 guns was paid to a third-party vendor, state police spokesman Lt. William Powers said.
Powers said the problem was a “modification to the trigger bar,” which sources said apparently occurred during assembly.
“As an immediate precautionary action all 152 weapons that had been issued to department members were recalled,” Powers said.
He added that after Sig Sauer engineers tested all of the new weapons “it was determined that they were acceptable for distribution.”
The new guns have been issued to the latest graduating class of troopers and the department is planning to continue dispersing them to troopers.
The guns, which are used by federal Homeland Security agents and the Coast Guard, are reportedly more accurate because they require consistent trigger pressure.
While the department says the problem has been addressed, the defective guns left some of the department’s 2,000 troopers uneasy.
 
Retrained on their old guns? That sounds kind of silly.
Like that Sponge Bob episode..."ERASE EVERYTHING BUT YOUR SIG TRAINING!"
Also, how sure were they that the guns were defect? You have to wonder about people sometimes...
 
Obviously the Massachusetts state police should have read the Errornet before purchasing these guns. If they have they would have learned that ZIGs never malfunction and this could not possibly be happening.:rolleyes: :D

Reminds me of the Indiana State Police's recent experience with the Glock fortay. When the Glock 22s started to malfunction people actually said to me "it can't be happening, 'cause I've read on the Internet . . .":D
 
But why do the MA police even NEED guns? Why, guns for civilians are all but banned in Boston, period, and strictly regulated in the rest of the state! It should be a peaceful utopia, and the cops should only need to carry flowers in their holsters!

Right? Oh...it's not like that?
 
"For great justice, recall all Sig!"

Sorry, that's way too geeky. Doesn't really say how the pistols were malfunctioning.
 
The defect left an undetermined number of troopers possibly defenseless on the job before the weapons were recalled. Some officers were even told to stay home from work because of the risk, sources told the Herald.

Even in Massachusetts I can't believe these troopers didn't have at least one of their own duty-capable pistols at home. Perhaps there is a liability issue with carrying a personal firearm.
 
The civilian upside of this switchover is that MSP retired and factory refurbished
Sigs are showing up for sale at guns stores in Mass. at reasonable prices. The ones I saw looked very good.

I was tempted, but I didn't want to add another caliber to my inventory.
 
a while back i posted on ar15.com a defensive situation FTF that I experienced with a european made P228 (9mm) several years ago.

and people piled on me like there was no tomorrow.

the funny thing ... it happened in Massachusetts. lol.

no more sigs for me, althought that 556 rifle looks tasty.
 
Big deal

As we all know all guns can malfunction do to many reasons. Though, Sigs tend to be more the more reliable handguns on the market, which makes them popular with many LEO depts in the nation, even they can have problems. It might be a manufacturing defect since it was only four out of 152. Though I would not be surprised if the problem was do to operator error. Police officers today, are not always trained to be highly efficent with firearms. Many Officers, even Troopers tend not to properly maintain their weapons, since they rarely pull them out of the holsters.
 
“They were having some serious malfunctions,” one trooper said. “Some guys couldn’t report to work until they went to the range to get their old gun back.”

What were their "old guns"?

I've seen some references to using the S&W 4006 before the Sig 226.

Anyone know?

MD
 
Whoever negotiated the contract on behalf of the MSP wasn't thinking straight. It seems like the contract should have contained some kind of failure to perform clause and provided a means of restitution in case this kind of thing happened.

Also, maybe a LEO can clarify for me: what is involved in "retraining"? I know that not all firearms are the same, but it's not like they're going from spears and arrows to a modern firearm.
 
"For great justice, recall all Sig!"

Sorry, that's way too geeky. Doesn't really say how the pistols were malfunctioning.

AHAHAHHA best comment of the thread

on a side note, the police dont need guns in MA. i mean our laws are magical spells that keep criminals from owning guns! and in this workers paradise no one has guns in places like Springfield, Dorchester, Mattapan and Roxbury
 
SIGarms-DAK: MA State Police...

The SIG DAK(double action Kellerman or as I've seen it Kessler :rolleyes: ) is the SIG pistol the news item refers to. Kessler/Kellermen was the SIG engineer who designed the lighter DA only trigger system.

To see the MA state cops have "major problems" with these SIG pistols is not good :uhoh: .

The US dept of Homeland Security/ICE just made a huge contract for the same type SIG pistols and I can not see how SIGarms let this go on.

RS
 
SIG is rapidly losing its luster. If you check out the SIG forum area at M1911.org (http://forum.m1911.org) you'll find that their supposedly all-fixed second release of their 1911 that doesn't look like a 1911 is still fraught with reliability issues.
 
So, what do we learn from this?

That being adopted by a PD or the military is the worst thing that can happen to any brand.

First Beretta, then Glock and now SIG...

That's only slightly tongue-in-cheek. There really is a huge liability in selling a lot of guns to an organization that's practically guaranteed to put out a press release at the first sign of trouble.
 
IG is rapidly losing its luster. If you check out the SIG forum area at M1911.org (http://forum.m1911.org) you'll find that their supposedly all-fixed second release of their 1911 that doesn't look like a 1911 is still fraught with reliability issues.

Well the 1911 Revolution pistols are completely designed, and made in the Exeter NH plant, while other Sig pistols are assembled here with both forgein and domesitic parts. At least that is what I was told by a Sig Rep.
 
The US dept of Homeland Security/ICE just made a huge contract for the same type SIG pistols and I can not see how SIGarms let this go on.

I know some of the people involved with the DHS testing, and it is no joke when they are called the most in-depth pistol test there have ever been.

The Sig is a great gun, but something that everyone needs to keep in mind is that all mechanical objects can have problems...

(cue for next post to say "But my Brand X has never jammed!") :rolleyes:

If it is a mechanical object, then it can have problems. Glitches happen. That is why no matter what your gun is, you need to test it. This is true for all brands, and even all types of products in general, not just guns.

I don't see the big deal. The state troopers need to test the guns anyway. Find the faulty ones, and return them to be replaced. If anything this release sounds more like your typical bureacratic nonsense panic attack.
 
Hoppy950

places like Springfield, Dorchester, Mattapan and Roxbury

Ah, the places where one does need a gun. Don't forget Lawrence, Lowell, North Andover, and Revere.

All those tax dollars spent...
 
Exactly what type of malfunctions were the Mass State Police having with their new Sigs?
 
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