Mail Order Guns (Hollyweird screws with peoples minds)

[PILMAN]

So I've been having a discussion with some liberals over the movie "Elephant" which is based off the columbine school shooting.

In the movie, there is a scene where the kids go on the internet to a gun site similar to impactguns or atlanticarms and end up ordering a gun. A day passes and some UPS driver or whatever knocks on their door with the package, just a signature, no check for ID. Kids open the package and theres a Bushmaster Carbon 15 in the box with 2 loaded magazines. They test it out and end up shooting up their school.

This is very very misleading to folks who have absolutely no knowledge about firearms whatsoever. I actually learned about the movie from a friend who said "Yeah but if gun control was more strict, the columbine kids wouldn't have been able to order their guns online shipped right to their house" which I promptly asked where he heard such a silly thing and told me about the movie.

After watching the movie, I started posting on IMDB when some worried soccer mom started commenting that it was sick that in America a kid could obtain a firearm so easily. (reminds me of that gunkids.com website that was shutdown).

After debating and showing them the policys on impactguns website and gunbrokers website about how one must have a firearm shipped to an FFL and be 18 years of age for a rifle, they started debating with me saying "There is nothing to stop a person from going through the blackmarket, i'm sure you heard about craigslist and you can buy handguns illegally shipped directly to your house!".

My first indication is that not only would this be unlikely (although I'm not sure if it'd be impossible) but it would be very unwise seeing that it would probably gain a lot of attention by feds if someone were selling guns and shipping directly to someones house. A person indicated customs would confiscate the firearm however I thought customs is only active on imported items. I would think packages are scanned and if they don't have the paperwork indicating it's a live firearm or a airsoft toy or whatnot that it would be confiscated. I thought this was the main reason airsoft guns and toy guns required orange tips to indicate they were not real firearms?

Anybody have more information about this what is stopping a person from mailing a gun illegally to another person or how UPS/Fedex prevents something like this?

 

[cold dead hands]

One question.

You don't actually expect that Hollyweird would be honest and that people would actually bother to find out the truth do you?

 

[mike101]

You could point out that the antis (Hollly wood is full of them) just lie all the time, because if they told the truth, they couldn't keep the hysteria level where it is. Then, take them to the Brady Bunches website, www.bradycampaign.org, and show her the many examples lies and ficticious stats. Then point out how some leading antis (Rosie, Dianne Feinstien, Barbara Boxer, etc), have carry permits themselves.

As far as the "Black Market" goes, well, it's always going to be there. Tell them if they prosecuted criminals to the full extent of the law, instead of coddling them, the Black Market would be less of a problem.

 

[XavierBreath]

The problem isn't Hollywood.

The problem is many people believe movies and television are reality.

Anybody have more information about this what is stopping a person from mailing a gun illegally to another person or how UPS/Fedex prevents something like this?

Not much, it seems, except the threat of prosecution and incarceration. The same is used to prevent murder. A free state depends on the rationality of it's citizens.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by XavierBreath:
The problem isn't Hollywood.

The problem is many people believe movies and television are reality.

That is the biggest problem we have in our society today. Complacent people who would rather not learn the facts by researching them. Its so much easier to learn the "facts" from TV and movies. Who cares if they are true or not because it was on TV.

 

[mike101]

Last weekend, when Sarah Brady made a brief (and pointless) appearance on her own blog, the first thing I said to her in my post was "Mrs. Brady, all most people know about guns is what they see on TV".

Ain't it the truth?

 

[Lucky]

(looks sheepishly at the Tokarev I just received through the mail)



I don't see the problem with it, I give them my license, they give me a gun. I'm the only one who can receive it. Solution in search of a problem, is what you guys have.

 

[Kindrox]

You answered your own question. What keeps people from illegally shipping guns to some kid's house? Obviously, nothing but their own morality. Similar questions to ask these folks are:

What keeps people from illegally driving drunk,
What keeps people from illegally selling drugs,
What keeps people from illegally killing other people,
What keeps people from illegally molesting kids,
What keeps people from illegally doing whatever the heck they feel like?

And the big one, if its already illegal to do it, how will passing another law make a differance?

 

[Baba Louie]

For those of us who were around in the 50's/60's, that was an everyday accepted normal thing.

sigh

Life was... simpler in some ways back then, neh?

Usually only the bad guys got shot in movies and TV, one never really saw the gory bloody action todays movies consider the norm... that might have changed with the Warren Beatty, Faye Dunaway "Bonnie & Clyde" bad-guys-are-good untruth movie, which was, what? '67? '68?

hmmm

 

[tmajors]

For those of us who were around in the 50's/60's, that was an everyday accepted normal thing.

Yea too bad some screw head messed it all up for us law abiding citizens by shooting someone famous from a Texas book depository window.

 

[MikePGS]

The thing is, there were gun crimes during the fifties and sixties, its just that people blamed people for the crimes rather than the guns. After Charles Whitman started shooting people from a tower Charles Whitman was blamed for his crimes, not his rifles. Or are we to believe that all of the weapons present during the world wars caused the wars, as opposed to the countries aggressive actions?

 

[heypete]

A person indicated customs would confiscate the firearm however I thought customs is only active on imported items.

Correct. Customs does not deal with intra-US parcels, unless there's some question of import duties not being paid or something else in their jurisdiction.

I would think packages are scanned and if they don't have the paperwork indicating it's a live firearm or a airsoft toy or whatnot that it would be confiscated.

Nope. I don't know if FedEx/UPS/USPS x-ray their packages (wouldn't surprise me), but considering the vast quantity of different things that get shipped in this country, there are several that are sensitive to x-rays and other scanning devices and using those scanners would damage the items. I think they occasionally use drug-sniffing machines or dogs.

One can legally mail/ship a gun to oneself (say I was traveling to another state to hunting or compete, I could mail the gun to myself at the address I'm going to be at), and one can mail/ship a gun to a dealer in another state. No paperwork is required in the box itself. A huge number of guns are shipped this way every day, and I would hazard a guess that none of them are confiscated.

I thought this was the main reason airsoft guns and toy guns required orange tips to indicate they were not real firearms?

No, that's so the cops will hopefully not shoot some kid who pulls out an airsoft pistol in public. It has nothing to do with them being intercepted and confiscated while in transit.

Anybody have more information about this what is stopping a person from mailing a gun illegally to another person or how UPS/Fedex prevents something like this?

Other than the looming threat of being caught, charged, tried, and imprisoned, very little. The law prohibits sending guns interstate except to a licensee (with some very specific exceptions), and the punishment for violating these laws is pretty severe. Still, I would imagine that a substantial number of people not familiar with federal firearms laws ship guns in violation of the law every day.

 

[gunsmith]

craigslist TOS prevents all firearm transfers

Craig Newmark is a moveon.org "progressive" he hates the NRA and doesn't allow any gun sales, sure, a few slip through but craigslist is primarily a place to find underage prostitutes and overused cars.
Craig believes the community should police themselves and they do, they flag gun adds...of course all the asian teen sex slaves traded on there and other disgusting human trafficking goes on unabated because the moveon community hates children and believes they are here for adult sexual gratification.

Oh, and I watched "Elephant" too, a poorly made Canadian movie that is still fascinating, like a car wreck.

When people ask me if I have seen bowling for columbine or elephant I reply "yes...have you seen triumph of the will? it is the same kind of documentary"

 

[ReadyontheRight]

How can more laws keep criminals from getting guns?

More laws only punish the law-abiding. More laws help criminals.

We need recidivist reform.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the director of elephent is a total flake and in my opinion, something of a quasi pedophile. I was at the Toronto Film Festival when that movie premiered. Gus Van Zandt, the director was asked if the two shooters (teenagers) making out in the shower (naked, of course) was a comment on the rumor that the Columbine shooters were somehow gay, Van Zandt replied, "no, in no way did I intend to portray the shooters as homosexual in any way..." So with his head so firmly entrenched where the sun don't shine, is it any surprise that he wouldn't research firearms laws before making a movie. Hollywood lives in an alternate reality folks.

In an interesting note, no Canadians in the theatre were phased at ordering a gun through the mail. Canada Post will deliver an MG right to your door (provided you posses a Grandfathered Prohibited Class liscence.)

 

[Bill St. Clair]

Hey, maybe the "Elephant" writers were imagining the future, when mail-order gun sales, from Sears, and Wal-Mart, will once again be nothing unusual.

A man can dream, can't he?

 

[cbsbyte]

Craig Newmark is a moveon.org "progressive" he hates the NRA and doesn't allow any gun sales, sure, a few slip through but craigslist is primarily a place to find underage prostitutes and overused cars.
Craig believes the community should police themselves and they do, they flag gun adds...of course all the asian teen sex slaves traded on there and other disgusting human trafficking goes on unabated because the moveon community hates children and believes they are here for adult sexual gratification.

I am starting to see more and more comments like this on this board and it needs to stop. The moderators seem to let comments like this pass, without thought. When in fact it deeply hurts the objectivness of this board. When fence sitters come to this site to find more about firearm rights, and read comments like the one above they will think gunowners are nothing more than hateful extremists. Which judging from post on this site is not too far from the the truth.

 

[hotpig]

There is a lot of public misconception on gun purchasing. I have been trying to find a new merchant account so that I can keep on accepting credit cards on my web site.

The service that I currently use doubled my fees starting this month. I have never had a charge back, fraudulent charge or contestested charge. My numbers are all good so the companies love me and offer very good rates.

The only problem is when they see that I sale guns and ammo they turn me down. I have tried eight of the best rated companies with no luck. I did get one company that may except me under high risk ie high fees if a sign a waver not to accept credit cards for guns and ammo sales.

Looks like I will have to stay with my current processor and their nickle and dime fees plus their % fees.

 

[akodo]

cbsbyte

The fact is that craigslist IS populated with adds by from and for prostitution, a fact that the the owner, Craig Newmark freely admits to and actually builds in spots for. The fact is that craigslist IS ALSO populated with ads for the sale or purchase of illegal drugs.

The fact is that cratigslist actively looks for and removes only 2 types of adds, those gun related, and those containing racially derogatory language, because Craig Newmark does not approve of them.

I think it is very reasonable to draw conclusions from those facts. What kind of person would go out of their way to stop law abiding transactions of firearms, while actually encourageing illegal trafficing in sex, and NOT check the sex area for 'red flags' on posts referring to underage people.


I totally agree that Craig Newmark has got is priorities very much out of whack. Also, in my personal opinion, those who traffic human children for sex, those who collaborate with them, and those who simply see it but say nothing are all one thing: Evil.

 

[gunsmith]

thank you akodo

Craig Newmark is welcome to drag me into Court for libel.
I would really love to show a jury the ad's for prostitution, craigslist has
ad's for those "massage parlors" they always advertise on craigslist and always get shut down for human trafficking.
It's no wonder they are for illegal immigration, if it wasn't kept in the underground they would find it difficult to exploit those poor teenage girls
who dream of a shining city of freedom but instead find shackles and humiliation.

hateful extremists.

Abolitionist have been called worse, if being against the sexual exploitation of children means being called a "hateful extremist" I will wear their scorn like a badge of honor!
(to quote a former VP)

edited to add, CSBYTE I tried to PM you with proof of my assertions but you don't have pm's

 

[Professor K]

I was talking to my friend in school, who had the notions you could buy guns online. I told him they need to be shipped to a gun shop, and you need to fill out all the same paperworks and background checks as you would if you just bought the gun from a gunshop, and he was like "oh."

He does agree with me that gun control is stupid, and laughed at the "if a criminal is breaking a law against murder, why's he going to follow a gun law?" He also owns a Luger, I think a WWII bringback, family heirloom.

 

[Robert Hairless]

I object. Everything in movies is true. I can see it with my own eyes so it must be true. There's a guy named Freddie running around with razorblades on his fingers, another guy named Clark Kent changes into blue tights and a cape so he can fly, and some guy named Dr. Frankenstein built another guy out of parts of dead people. It's all true. My eyes don't lie.

The only thing that throws me is that when I hear people speak a foreign language on the streets I don't see the English translation running across their bodies. Real life sucks. Movies are much better. At least I can understand what people say in them.

 

[Geronimo45]

"The only thing that throws me is that when I hear people speak a foreign language on the streets I don't see the English translation running across their bodies. Real life sucks."

True. And, believe it or not, people who are Spanish-only-speakers don't understand english with a movie-mexican accent. Or else they're pretending not to, and thus cold-shouldering me, handsome devil that I am, afraid that I'll charm away all their womenfolk.

I seriously doubt that UPS or FedEx x-ray their packages. Maybe if it's insured for a very large amount... but I doubt that they scan regular, low-insurance packages on anything like a regular basis. Scanning slows down the wheels of progress... and the faster those wheels turn, the faster the package is delivered, and the better FedEx or UPS seem to their customers.

 

[mek42]

The problem is many people believe movies and television are reality.

How can you say that about the primary method of interrogation training used today by the CIA?

Regarding "Bowling for Columbine" I thought that the major point was that gun violence was merely a symptom of the fear based society of America. Doesn't Canada have about the same number (or more) guns per capita than the US with astronomically lower rates of gun violence? Or Switzerland where almost every last house maintains some sort of fully automatic weapon?

With the US as politically polarized as it is now, nothing will change (improve - things could and probably will get worse) about the fear based society either. It's almost like the nutjobs on both sides actively don't want to do any sort of compromising on anything due to sheer stubbornness. It's time for a third, moderate party.

Ok, you got me worked up - time to start a thread in political / legal.

 

[Don Gwinn]

CBSByte, I'm no expert on Craigslist but it would not surprise me to learn that prostitutes advertise there. It doesn't really bother me, but whatever.

The point was that Newmark is anti-gun, Craigslist is anti-gun, and assertions that Craigslist is a great place to buy guns illegally are therefore suspect.